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Had flu over the weekend that left me physically and mentally delicate. Yesterday mostly I slept and then had a light serving of Hatsu Akiko. Today, in the mood for something more nourishing, I started Kohri no Mamono and zipped through a tank and a half. Err, well, so much for nourishing. Light stuff, goes down nicely, not an immense amount of substance to date. (Truly, manga where the hero asks himself every other page why he should care until the startling revelation many many pages along that OMG HE CARES!!! are um just a touch been-there-done-that, no?) Most distinguishing feature so far was me thinking for a tank and a half that the demon's name was Brad.

Went for a walk in the grey dank and came home in the mood for more Woxin.

The subtitles are beginning to bug me big time. They make no sense in the way subbed anime doesn't: because details and nuances in the dialogue are being completely elided over. (This is why dubs are theoretically more informative, except that voice actors can't act. What you theoretically gain in fullness you certainly lose in atmosphere.) So we have Gou Jian saying all through ep 2 that he'll fight Wu and can't possibly send his sister back, right up until his wife tells him he can't send his sister back and here's why, whereupon he says she *must* go back (and is Not Nice to his wife while saying it) until ep 3 where he says he *won't* send her back, nado nado. Possibly it would help if I could read Chinese body language, but I can't do that either.

With this kind of confusion inherent in my watching, not surprisingly I take a settled dislike to anyone who says one thing and means another. In consequence I have absolutely no use for Shi Mai. And not much use for Gou Jian to date, but he at least is smooth and sinister and doesn't have wibbly Old Retainer mannerisms. However all this 'I'll fight' 'Well no I won't fight' 'I intend to fight' 'We cannot fight' **all from the same person** is making me a mite dizzy.

And also: they could have called Shi Mai Supreme General, which would make his position clear. Instead they call him Field Marshal, which may be technically correct but which doesn't convey a sense of supreme command to *me*, who have at least heard of Montgomery of Alamein, and will probably convey nothing at all to most Americans who've never had field marshals at all. (Useful info from wikipedia: "The United States has never used the rank of field marshal because George Washington only held the rank of general, and it was therefore considered inappropriate to have a higher rank.)

I suppose I must resign myself to the same odd obscurity as to Who means What when we come to the later eps, which is heart-breaking. This, doubtless, is karmic payback for all the series I've nattered about to people with the rider 'but it's only in Japanese.'

However I notice with disapproval the bad behaviour of the princes of Wu. I'm sure real princes behave like that when there's a throne at stake but I have resolved that my own princes will be united in brotherly harmony and loyalty and iron-clad primogeniture, aided only slightly by the fact that they all screw each other like bunnies.

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I like my field marshals... Montgmoery cut a wonderful image and actually in spite of the side he was on Rommel wasn't too bad either!

We won't mention the other Marshall ^_~ !

and oops! I forgot...I hope you get over the flu quickly! ^__^

*sends cosy warmth!*

I think history is with you there on Rommel.

We won't mention the other Marshall ^_~ !

McLuhan?

"The one-l marshal he's a rank
The two-l Marshall he's a crank
But I will bet a string-tied parcel
There isn't any three-l marshalll."

To be pedantic here- the two-l marshal is a proper name, most famously held by the American Secretary of State whose bright idea it was to rebuild Europe (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marshall_Plan) after WW2. This, and the fact that they have no field marshals, may be why so many American fen still call him Marshall Tenpou.

...I hope you get over the flu quickly! ^__^

And you your writer's block.

By the third, I did mean Tenpou. It's what having colonial influences does to one. I was aware that not many refer to him thus.
...

And you your writer's block.

Yes me too!

Edited 2008-01-08 09:57 (UTC)

I was aware that not many refer to him thus.

Oh, sorry. My joke-meter is obviously broken at the moment.

I hope the flu goes away with the utmost rapidity.

Thanks. It appears to have done so. Not that a certain lingering lack of appetite wouldn't have been appreciated.

Ugh, flu. *good vibes*

And your dislike for Shi Mai will probably increase in the episodes to come. I think you'll like Wen Zhong. :D

Ehh this probably means I was watching with the brain switched off because Gou Jian's flip-flopping didn't register as flip-flopping? Or it did register in an abstract way but not as something that, you know, people don't do.

I think it comes down to the fact that Ji Wan's flight is an excuse to show Wu who's boss; that doesn't mean he totally doesn't care about what happened to his sister but it's not a primary consideration. If personal feelings were the only reason not to let her return to Wu, he'd just send her back. But Gou Jian's ambition is no secret; and when his wife brings up a totally personal reason to keep Ji Wan in Yue, he flares up because as a brother he completely couldn't prevent his sister from being shamed. He cannot keep his sister in Yue for purely personal reasons, and perhaps more importantly will not. But if it serves his purposes, hey, why not. Not a nice guy, is our Crown Prince.

Gou Jian's ambition is no secret;

That's precisely what doesn't come through in the subtitles. Gou Jian could just as easily be chafing under a sense of impotence that any man would resent. The arrogant might of Wu demands his sister back, very probably as a pretext for further incursions so it doesn't really matter whether they give her back or not, because Wu will attack anyway. He wants to resist, he wants his courtiers to tell him to resist, and he and they both know that in practical terms that if they resist, they die. OTOH what do they have to lose by fighting, since Wu is obviously bent on crushing Yue? Which is why it looks so odd when he says 'Fine, back she goes'- this before his father the king overrides him to say exactly the same thing.

(There's also the western brain stutter over the fact that the worst thing about being raped isn't the violation of someone's personal integrity, it's the attendant shame. I've half got my brain there- after 20 years of exposure to the similar Japanese attitude, I'd better- but you better believe it's nonintuitive.)

Gou Jian could just as easily be chafing under a sense of impotence that any man would resent. The arrogant might of Wu demands his sister back, very probably as a pretext for further incursions so it doesn't really matter whether they give her back or not, because Wu will attack anyway. He wants to resist, he wants his courtiers to tell him to resist, and he and they both know that in practical terms that if they resist, they die. OTOH what do they have to lose by fighting, since Wu is obviously bent on crushing Yue?

That was exactly how I read it, the first time round. (and fwiw i still didn't find the outburst odd. must really not have been watching with brain on.) But Gou Jian's shadowy unknowable not-niceness is what struck me on rewatching. Granted it's Shi Mai of all people who says the ambition thing it so ehhh, but it does make sense, and is a bit more obvious the second time round with the benefit of hindsight.

Or it could be he got his nose rubbed in his lack of actual authority. "The King says so and I have no choice but to obey, why do you tell me these things to vex me when I am powerless to change the outcome." I think I mustn't overcompensate for initial naivety r.e. Gou Jian by reading him overly sinister.

Which is why it looks so odd when he says 'Fine, back she goes'- this before his father the king overrides him to say exactly the same thing.

Uh. He does? Where?

When his wife tells him he can't send his sister back here's why. Or is that not what he's saying? These subs aren't terribly good at differentiating between the present tense and the conditional voice.

His father had already told him to send sis back, out on the battlements, to Gou Jian's consternation. At night Gou Jian visits father, is terribly quiet and reproachful, gets told that sis has to go back and chafes at lack of actual authority. So by the time he runs into Ya Yu there really isn't a lot he can do. Your interpretation (and my first impression) would seem to be correct.

I dunno how they translated it but out on the battlements the conversation goes something like

King: Go tell your sister, do not cause all this trouble on account of just one person.
Crown Prince: *shocked* Why does my Lord Father not tell her himself?
King: I am old, I cannot bear to see tears.
Crown Prince: But there is only death for her in Wu!
King: There is only death for Yue if she does not return to Wu. *exits, leaving GJ looking first shocked and then grim*

I really need a DVD player on this computer. Tudou is so slow. D:

You had the right of it earlier, when you thought he was expressing his frustration. When he says that she must go back, and that she should die, he was venting his anger by repeating what other people are saying, not changing his mind what he actually felt. Though I don't blame you for being confused by the subtitle. Even in Chinese it only became clear as his tirade went on. At the beginning you're meant to think that he has changed his mind, which is why his wife looked so shocked.

Between ironic declarations, deep-plotted politicking, and defective English translations, I can see I'll have my work cut out to make any coherent sense of this at all.

It actually becomes easier as you go along. Ones the old kings kick the bucket everything start to move along at a snappier speed, and things becomes more straightforward. I think about episode 8 or so. This series actually doesn't really go too much into political plotting -- generally it's a more straightforward time, and the characters generally say what they mean. Shi Mai is the one major exception.

I hope you are feeling better!
BTW I liked Kohri no Mamono. THe main characters never got anywhere but at least it ended well and as you said cute. The author is wrting a new one. Another fantasy and the world and the idea is interesting. If you are interested let me know. I'll give you a brief review.
Oh and yeah Brad....LOL!

I have the first three volumes of Silver Diamond but figured I'd better get through what I have of Kohri first. I don't imagine I'll want to read all of KnMnM if it's as inconclusive as you say, but I figured I might as well see what I'm in for with this mangaka.

Kohri is fluff. I love the first +10 volumes and have the complete series, but have never been inspired enough to get Silver Diamond.

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