Fragment of a Greek Tragedy reconsidered

[flemmings]

          In speculation
          I would not willingly acquire a name
                For ill-digested thought;
                But after pondering much
          To this conclusion I at last have come:
                PEOPLE ARE STUPID.
                This truth I have written deep
                In my reflective midriff
                On tablets not of wax,
          Nor with a pen did I inscribe it there,
          For many reasons:  PEOPLE, I say, ARE NOT
                STRANGERS TO STUPIDITY.
          Not from the flight of omen-yelling fowls
                This fact did I discover,
          Nor did the Delphine tripod bark it out,
                Nor yet Dodona.
          Its native ingenuity sufficed
                My self-taught diaphragm.

Housman's original is here. It's much funnier if you've read Aeschylus in Greek: about the only funny thing to reading Aeschylus in Greek, come to that.

I return to my newest discovered love (c.10 am this morning):  Singlish

This partly because when you spell Hokkien words out in romaji and say what they mean, their relation to Japanese on-yomi hits you between the eyes. This doesn't happen with mandarin. Stupid Manchu.

Comments

[rasetsunyo.livejournal.com]

This partly because when you spell Hokkien words out in romaji and say what they mean, their relation to Japanese on-yomi hits you between the eye.

They do, don't they? My Hokkien is rudimentary (and gutter) but I always noticed guu = gyuu = cow/beef. Well this isn't a very good example because Mandarin niu is pretty close too but still the Hokkien is closer.

[rasetsunyo.livejournal.com]

Oddly enough though when the language is actually spoken the sound/inflection etc. are nothing like Japanese.

[flemmings.livejournal.com]

I know. Cantonese neither, which I've seen more of up close than Hokkien. But still-- it seems one can feel one's way about, as it were, as with German from an English standpoint.

[incandescens]

Indeed, thine arithmetic (and judgment) are quite correct.

[flemmings.livejournal.com]

True, it's like noting that the sun rises in the east but sometimes I feel the need to point the fact out: especially when the sun rises so loudly and egregiously that I must scream or stifle. Screaming posts however have a short shelf life, so, well, I rephrase.

[i-am-zan.livejournal.com]

Ahahaha! Even as a native I certainly have not heard some of those.

[mauvecloud.livejournal.com]

Aside from one pointed by rasetsunyo, there is five = go. In fact, just lookit 'em numbers:
yi ji sa see go lak cheet pek cow chap

Now recite the nihon-go numbers.... (use shi for 4, shici for 7)

I wonder if this is one of the factors contributing to the somewhat cordial Taiwan-Japan relationship (despite the WWII thing and the fact that Japan was a former master even before that).

(On an unrelated note, funny, former president and sometime cosplayer Lee Teng-hui berated Taiwan in nihon-go somewhere in Japan a few months ago. WHat a guy!)

The Minnan version spoken in Taiwan is related to the so-called Hokkien (a misnomer, hopeless case, but I will wank elsewhere) spoken hereabouts.

[flemmings.livejournal.com]

the so-called Hokkien (a misnomer, hopeless case, but I will wank elsewhere)

Please do. The webpage seems in no doubt that what LRDers speak is Hokkien. What is it, if not Hokkien? (And if Hokkien-whatever is so widespread in S'pore, why is Mandarin standard in the schools? Only so you can talk to the Great Big Landmass?)

[i-am-zan.livejournal.com]

Well the colloquialisms and swear words usually, ^_~ but there's also Teochew, Hakka, Hainanese, (those are the more well known ones anyway) I guess Mandarin helps to 'unify' (maybe not the right word, but heh!)a common denominator so to speak.

But great Uncle Lee (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lee_Kuan_Yew) with foresight deemed it a good language to have in terms of 'business sense'... ...but heh.

It's quite amusing when we see the ang moh (http://www.talkingcock.com/html/lexec.php?op=LexLink&lexicon=lexicon&keyword=ANG%20MOR/ANG%20MOR%20NANG) get into picking up singlish (hubby included). He won't learn Malay (he thinks it's pointless) or any other language, but he will happily indulge in singlish! ^_^ sad but true.

[flemmings.livejournal.com]

Having just googled min nan and with my head now swimming badly, I can see why some totally different form of Chinese would be necessary to unify the place. You understand, it's really difficult for an English speaker to wrap her mind around the concept of two forms of the *same dialect* of Chinese that are more different than English is from German (because by me, English has more in common with French than with German.) I don't know that English even has dialects per se, though thorough-going Yorkshire might count as one: but northern Yorkshire being mutually incomprehensible with southern? Weird.

I don't get people who won't learn other languages, or try to learn. What's the fun of being unilingual? It's like being impaired in some way- 50% hearing loss or something.

[mauvecloud.livejournal.com]

What's the fun of being unilingual?

The lack of suspicion that one might have done better in one specific language if one puts 100% in that one language, a near-impossible task for a multilingual person? (oh my, pardon my english =P)

LRD is a good example. The Mandarin no so good, the English also not so good (When reading mass-mailed emails, I amuse myself at HR person's expense. "Congratulations to our newly joined staff." Wow!)

[flemmings.livejournal.com]

If the one specific language is your native language, how much effort is needed to become better at it?

Granted, that applies only to people who grow up in unilingual environments where the native tongue has no rivals. Maybe multi-lingual environments do make for a half-assed grasp of all the languages available. But- enh- the Swiss seem to cope OK.

Besides, if I may be a Canadian here, with the English I speak under daily onslaught from the simplified TV-derived English the Americans speak, to the point that we'll all be reduced to a vocabulary of 1000 words some day, I'm all for other flavours of English developing. Singlish isn't a bastard incorrect language, it's a naturally developing one, exactly like American and Australian. If I must read non-standard English, at least let it be non-standard because it embodies Chinese words and usages. That's just as legitimate as the 'where I come from the past tense of drag is drug so drug is *right*.' (You may guess I have no problem with Black American English either for exactly the same reasons.)

[mauvecloud.livejournal.com]

"our newly joined staff" is neither formal anglais nor Singlish. It is the combination of plain laziness (google! ask!) and incurable wordiness/snobbery (other example: "recall back"). What is wrong with good old plain "our new staff"?

[flemmings.livejournal.com]

"our newly joined staff" is neither formal anglais nor Singlish.

No, but it's something a NAmerican would write, and doubtless has.

[mauvecloud.livejournal.com]

I got off my ass and googled. OMG, two too many returns, one from California, and one from, guesss, LRD ^^;;
http://www.google.com/search?q=%22our+newly+joined+staff%22&sourceid=mozilla&start=0&start=0&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

[i-am-zan.livejournal.com]

ehehehe! Now why doesn't that surprise me at all!? *wipes tear from eye* ^_~...

now what i would like to know is the origins of the word 'kaypo' It sounds like a (Chinese) dialect but no one can tell me and indeed one of my Chinese friends thinks its a Malay word! eh??!

[mauvecloud.livejournal.com]

Look, and dictionary will enlighten!

http://singlishdictionary.com/singlish_K.htm#kaypoh

Above 60 -> retiree/empty nest -> too much time on hands -> busybody

(your ignorant chinese friends... see the self-righteous mauvecloud's previous comment about being n-lingual)

[i-am-zan.livejournal.com]

Aaah! See I knew it was Chinese. Funny that my friend thought it was Malay though!

Well I keep telling hubby..you know *Sikit-sikit jadi bukit

*Sikit = contraction of sedikit = A little
jadi = makes or becomes
bukit = a hill

^_^

Thank you

[mauvecloud.livejournal.com]

Oh, bukit!

Anjing menyalak bukit, bukit tak runtuh pun!

(The dog barks at the hill; still the hill does not crumble)

Any time you need help with Singlish, or dialect (or Malay for that matter).

[i-am-zan.livejournal.com]

Sure thing. Thanks...and don't be surprised if I take you up on that offer.

One of the reasons I appealed to the girl's school to allow her to take up Mandarin instead of Malay is because my Malay is rubbish. I fumble through it at weddings and funerals with the 'olds' (although I may be of this generation already! Heh! ^_~)as it is, never mind being able to teach her.

At least with Mandarin there's a legitimate reason for giving her extra tuition.