Bechdel Test

[flemmings]

The theory is I have Monday off, bar Dolorous Phonecalls. It will be interesting to have a holiday Monday that no one else has. If it happens. Note the fine line between 'pessimist' and 'realist.'

Discussion of fave female BFFs. Since I spent my early teen years wishing I was at Kingscote school with the Marlows while being at an all-girls Catholic high school in reality, female BFF to me was synonymous with adolescence. Now it's synonymous with LJ FLs. Am still trying to think, through the chronic mental fuzz, what fictional BFF I know currently, and conclude there aren't any, aside from Ya Yu and Yuan Luo swapping books, or Sybil and her coterie of well-born semi-aristos caring for sick dragons. Possibly there's something wrong with my reading habits.

(Well yes. The series I read are written by men (Discworld, Aubrey/Maturin, 3K, even flipping Red Chambers), modelled on series written by men (Novik, Astreaint), or shounen manga (Minekura's oeuvre.) Focus on The Guys Doing, with women seen out the corner of the eye. And no, I don't think Monstrous Regiment really qualifies. I love Pratchett to distraction but, like Dick Francis, there are things he just doesn't get because he sees them as an outsider. With Pratchett it's female friendship-- arguably, friendship period. What friends are there in Discworld? With Francis it's gay men as pov characters. There are gay men in his books-- and I'm desperate to find the one that has the gay roommate in it-- but he said he had no experience of the mindset and didn't want to try writing a gay man's world.)

Meanwhile my Japanese novel, that's been wandering around to no purpose in late-Meiji literary name-dropping (high school student Akutagawa comes in to pick up his copies of Baudelaire, even though I'm reasonably sure that Akutagawa was a pen name), suddenly acquires action if not a plot, and my naive hero is now hog-tied in the middle of the night somewhere in the vicinity of what is now the Koishikawa Botanical Gardens. I read on with more energy.

Also-- I could say this about people who can't be arsed to rake their seedlings and must use a leaf blower, and I could say that about people who can't be arsed to rake their seedlings but must use a leaf blower, but since what I'd say mostly defaults to some version of 'Die in a fire', I won't say it. But like a good Torontonian, I shall be thinking it hard.

Comments

[i-am-zan.livejournal.com]

Oh WOW! Thank you for sharing that link. I LOVED both 'House of Elliot" and 'Absoutely Fabulous" I only vaguely remember 'The Grand' For me too being in an all girls at first the Convents for primary and secondary school and then an all-girl school in the UK at High school level, it was how I grew up. BFF were all I had!

In literature or shows I remember, Little Women, and those Enid Blyton stories like Mallory Towers and St. Clare's. I think Mallory Towers was my favourite and yes I had a few BFF's from that series. At presnet it seems I'm making up for an all girl life by surrounding myself fandomwise with men men and yet more men! Mwahhhahha! (sorry exhaustion does things to my ability for coherence)

I can think of no BFF's in my fandoms at present Does Minekura's Yaone and Lirin count, What kind of relationship does Gyoukumen Koushou have with Dr Hwang?

There was Deaana Troi and Beverly Crusher in ST:TNG and Buffy/Willow and the love/hate thing going on between Buffy and Faith in 'Buffy the Vampire Slayer', I noticed a serious lack of it in Star Wars and inter species BFF's on Dr Who don't count I suppose. ^__^

I could never read Dick Francis, even if for a time I knew the circuits and the community such as it was. The likes of Alistair Maclean and Douglass Reeman wrote het romances against the backdrop of war and covert ops, with the M/M relations all about about being Manly men doing their duty and dying for their country!

This really is quite the thought provoking post and a lovely wander down memory lane whilst I procrastinate on prompts and laundry ^___^

[flemmings.livejournal.com]

IIRC Troi and Crusher spent their time working out and talking about men. Also I detest both of them-- typical examples of the thin-voiced tight-assed female. (No idea why they talk that way-- Troi's actress has the loveliest Australian accent when she's herself. But she spoke her lines as if someone were throttling her.) Give me Pulowski any day of the week- Drinks With Klingons Pulowski was a real woman.

Yaone looks after Lirin like a good retainer, and Gyokumen twits Dr Hwang, and both relations are the minorest of details in the story overall. Phail, Minekura sensei.

Really? I love Francis. Horses are so ordinary compared to war and covert ops, subjects which I find both distasteful and boring and something you wouldn't have to do if people were only sensible. Also Francis' heroes are, generally, aspects of Francis himself-- ordinary decent men who find themselves in extraordinary situations, and who cope. He wrote in collaboration with his wife, and by me it shows.

[i-am-zan.livejournal.com]

I can think of no BFF's in my fandoms at present Does Minekura's Yaone and Lirin count, What kind of relationship does Gyoukumen Koushou have with Dr Hwang? that 'can' over there should have been a 'can't'! *head desk*

*sigh* it's late or I'm tired, both I guess. ^_^

I think it was an age thing with me. At the time I grew up reading whatever my father left around the house, Reeman and Maclean and whatever my mother left Somerset Maughm and Evelyn Waugh! I encountered Francis much later (when I was in the UK) and I really can't think why I never 'got' into him because I did love the horses and the scene by default.

I do see what you mean by Crusher and Troi though. I loved Pulowski! BFF's aside, ^_^ Of the the scifi I have watched, one woman that comes to mind that I liked somewhat as a character was Ivanova from Babylon 5. But thinking back on it she had an odd husky voice too! Maybe it is a pre-requisite for spacewomen to have odd voices!? Although some have said her voice was sexy - men and women alike! For me I can't really say.

[flemmings.livejournal.com]

Ivanova's voice was just fine by me. A little thin, but pleasantly pitched, and at least the actress *breathed.* The quarrel I have with NAmerican female diction-- the Hollywood voice, so to speak-- is that it's thin and bodiless: no resonance, no deep tones. You can't take someone seriously who talks like that. Troi had a deep voice but it was tight and strangled. It's like these people never fill their lungs when they speak-- it all comes from the top of the mouth and often through the nose, giving a whine to it. The contrast by me is always with French women, who talk from their diaphragms so the voice resonates; and a lot of English or Irish women whose voices, even if they aren't as mellifluous as the French, at least resonate clearly.

[paleaswater.livejournal.com]

The ones that come to mind immediately are the young mistresses and their faithful maids from Chinese literature. Daiyu and Zijuan from Red Chambers, for example. The relationships are really more like BFF than master servants. Now that you mention it I'm having trouble coming up thinking of any in recent reading either. Hmm...

[flemmings.livejournal.com]

The translation does tend to make the maids sound maidish, though, with a few settled exceptions like Xifeng's assistant and Bao Yu's maid/ concubine.

[flo-nelja.livejournal.com]

For Pratchett friendship in general, would the relationship between Detritus and Cuddy in "Men at arms" count, or is it too much of a parody/cliché ?

(I have few BFF relationships I love, but it's for another reason - when I like very much the relationship between two girls, I often ship it ^^;;)

[flemmings.livejournal.com]

Detritus and Cuddy is an excellent friendship of the kind you rarely see Pratchett doing in detail. But I have a sneaking suspicion that he shows us the depth of feeling between them only because of the spoiler part of the relationship. (Indeed, I think it *can* only be shown because of the spoiler. We must have High Deeds before we can have High Emotion.) Whereas in everyday life, the Angua and Cheery relationship remains cool; hell, even Angua and Carrot remains cool. Awfully stiff in the upper lip, these Discworlders.

[ukoku.livejournal.com]

Funny, I was just thinking about the Bechdel Test this morning. The Warhammer 40k book I'm reading right now contains short stories, one about the Sisters of Silence, a specific military-like branch that collects dangerous psychic people. Not once has a man been discussed, let alone anything relationship wise. In a way it seems surprising since it's such a male-dominated hobby, but I've rarely been annoyed by female characters in the series.

In my never-finished novel, 3 of 4 main protagonists are female (so they obviously have a lot more to talk about).

(Also, the above-mention of Gyokumen/Hwang made me laugh.)