Woxin rewatch 16-20

[flemmings]

Not much difference from my first impressions and rasetsunyo's and feliciter's various until we get to--

Episode 19: Best In Show.

Gou Jian and Fan Li in the snow!! Gou Jian's catechism of Fan Li! Gou Jian counselled by Fan Li to surrender, which is hotter than 16 because *this* time GJ looks like he might actually use the sword he has at Fan Li's throat.

(Extra points for Gou Jian x White Horse OTP)

Ya Yu and Fu Chai!! Yeah, right. Some calls it righteousness and some calls it 'etiquette' but I calls it in the closet, 'cause damn, Fu Chai walked out of there without a second thought.

Gou Jian at the gates of his fallen city! Gou Jian walking the long path to the Great Hall in the snow! Ahh the colours, the composition, the aesthetic thrill.

Gou Jian and Fu Chai!! Gou Jian lounging on his back at the bottom of the stairs! Gou Jian and Fu Chai having a casual talk about kingship and politics over drinks oh right that part didn't happen. Ruined only by Fu Chai being a smug tightass still.

(Parenthetically, why did no one tell Wu Xi Zu that stalking about like the Wicked Witch of the West/ a carrion crow cawing 'Kill him! Kill him! And his little dog too!' gains him no credibility points at all? Why didn't WZX figure for himself that telling the King, 'Kill Gou Jian and break the oath you just swore to Zhou that got him here in the first place!' a) would not go down at all well and b) is diplomatic suicide? This says something about either WZX's sanity or Helu's normal MO, and in either case it's nothing good.)

Hell, even the chorus of weeping courtiers and poor Wen Zhong in his Chinese stocks was touching, given that it's the first time and not nearly as tiresome as it's going to get in Wu. And anyway, there's Gou Jian holding out his hand to take Ya Yu's, as he's done so many times before. "I am not the king any more." Truly, Gou Jian x Ya Yu, OTP. And still can't analyze why it works so well with them and so badly anywhere else.

As in ahem ep 20. Observe that Fan Li has had no thoughts of accompanying the king to Wu until the queen lands a wife on him and then suddenly it's "I've been thinking and I've just had this great idea, instead of running your country for you I think I should leave it in the hands of the guy whose ability I've slammed unceasingly, and submit myself to a stint of imprisonment and humiliation, neat huh?" Fate worse than death, or Fan Li feeling ah sorry-pardon fleeing the creeping temptations of heterosexuality?

And poor Ya Yu in 20. Ministers at her to do things since the king's in a funk- and I say again, why isn't Ku Cheng a eunuch? The person who connives with the harem-side to get things done always is, and those two are effectively the official Fixers in Yue. And then Gou Jian being nasty when even an idiot should have realized she's got to be worried sick herself. But kings are allowed to be hysterical on occasions and their ministers just have to rough it. (Would like to have seen Ya Yu allowed the occasional Wen Zhong grump or Fan Li second thought, though.)

Am I missing something through subtitles or what? Gou Jian tells Yan Ying to find his son and don't come back till he does. Yan Ying's notion of finding missing princes is to kneel outside Gou Jian's door for a couple of days, while Gou Jian bellows 'Let him stay there forever!', presumably until he finds Yu Yi by his mystical magical powers. Finally Ya Yu says something that the subtitles render as 'I'll take the responsibility' and off Yan Ying goes to do what he should have been doing before. This makes no sense. And Ya Yu goes off to have a quiet little weep on her own because her son is missing and her husband is unco-operative and her country is defeated and she has to do everything herself for no thanks. Men, said Jessica.

Shi Mai. Really, one wonders about Gou Jian's atavistic instincts. 'I'm not certain of Wen Zhong- foreigner, you know- here, let's entrust the choice of the next king to this man who can't say anything but Da Wang!! and sob.' For once you might take a leaf from Helu's book, ya know.

And finally off to Wu, under the sadistic lash of what looks rather like Brute 2 redivivus; poor Ku Cheng pressing my loyal retainer buttons all the way, and Gou Jian, even in shackles, reaching for Ya Yu's hand.

ETA: Five times through Gou Jian's Confession, randomly flipping back and forth between English and Chinese subtitles (and wishing for once I could have both simultaneously except they'd prob be simplified hanzi) and yes yes yes, *here* is the Spaniard in his shirt. This shall sustain us through Wu.

Comments

[i-am-zan.livejournal.com]

Thank you for sharing, I'm enjoying you rewatching immensely!

[flemmings.livejournal.com]

Be sure to tune in when they show 19 at least- which won't be for a couple of months anyway.

[rasetsunyo.livejournal.com]

Yeah 19 is brilliant, I watch it again and again and again. :DD

"I only spoke because the King has promised to spare my life. Might Your Majesty prove less worthy of trust than Fu Chai King of Wu?"
"Fu Chai? Trustworthy?" In tones of utter rage and disbelief I do wonder where that came from. =pp

why isn't Ku Cheng a eunuch?

I dunno -- can we assume he is and somebody doing the makeup at the end screwed up? "How do we make him look older, I know let's give him a moustache."

[flemmings.livejournal.com]

"How do we make him look older, I know let's give him a moustache."

Not that they worried about making anyone else look older except Gou Jian, you note.

There's a bit at the end that has Ku Cheng leading armies again, though. But it's a point that bugs me. He's Gou Jian's secretary and body servant, basically: you never see anyone else in Gou Jian's apartments. Fu Chai has all those maids but Gou Jian is much more spartan. I'm not sure what the protocol is on that. Amanuenses/ aides can be men- witness WZX's spy Fu Chai's ill-starred right-hand man- but I thought male bodyservants were eunuchs. And he's so soft and tender and weak-seeming: Fan Li's up to the rigours of the march and prison but Ku Cheng suffers.

[paleaswater.livejournal.com]

Oh, I just assumed at that point in history eunuchs didn't exist yet. I think it takes a few more centuries before they became a fixture of the imperial palace.

[flemmings.livejournal.com]

There were palace eunuchs in Shang (http://www.eunuch.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=1437):

"Nobody knows when and how eunuchs were first institutionalized in China except that castration was frequently used as a substitute for the death penalty. In China, palace eunuchs were called 'huanguan' which was a recognized official title during the Shang dynasty (1765 - 1222 B.C.) as it appeared on the Shang oracle bones. 'Zhouli" (Rites of the Zhou) also used a variety of terms when it referred to this group of castrated men. Other literature confirmed that the Zhou kings had in fact employed eunuchs as chamberlains in the palaces, assigning them to supervise royal chambers and guard the king's harem."

"The first notorious eunuch who drew the attention of ancient chroniclers was Pei, who, according to the historian Zuo Qiuming, served under three mutually hostile dukes during the sixth century B.C."

[feliciter.livejournal.com]

The more I watch, the more ravishing attractive Uncle Ming Gou Jian looks in the snow. Especially with that horse, yes indeed.

Someone on Yahoo China commented that Jia Yiping (Fan Li) was trying too hard to model his performance on Uncle Ming - I think it shows very obviously in the catechism scene, but he does manage to pull it off (doesn't work so well in the court scenes, though.)

Fan Li feeling ah sorry-pardon fleeing the creeping temptations of heterosexuality?

ahaha absolutely, now you mention it.

Gou Jian being nasty when even an idiot should have realized she's got to be worried sick herself.

And before that, fainting in Fan Li's arms askdj;;sdk;djsn

Gou Jian tells Yan Ying to find his son and don't come back till he does

Yan Ying said he had searched for 3 days and 3 nights before reporting to Gou Jian, then after he was ordered out spent 1 day and 1 night kneeling in front of the palace probably feeling that 1)he had covered all the bases and there was no way he could have missed the boy, 2) guilty, and likely tired as hell; 3) fearing that by now Yu Yi is dead, so scared of the consequences? Ya Yu does say that she will take all responsibility (for whatever happens, presumably finding Yu Yi dead or captured) as long as Yan Ying goes out there *again* to look for him.

I'm rewatching the Wen Zhong bits and feeling sorrier for him because, let's face it, Gou Jian's attitude towards him can be summed up by 1)"I can't hear you"; 2)Fan Li next to him, Wen Zhong one step below them; 3)oh-Wen-Zhong-there-you-are-in-the-stocks-bidding-me-take-care-of-myself-*turns around to the others after barely acknowledging him*.

[flemmings.livejournal.com]

I think it shows very obviously in the catechism scene, but he does manage to pull it off (doesn't work so well in the court scenes, though.)

One can do much worse than model oneself on Chen Daoming. Jia pulls it off magnificently here, where it's most needed; think how it might have gone if he'd played it in Prettyboy mode. But I want to boot him any time he takes a formal leave of anyone. He sounds pompous and immature to my ears- which may be a problem of my ears, but may also be how they're characterizing Fan Li, The Man Who Would Not Be Advisor.

I''m rewatching the Wen Zhong bits and feeling sorrier for him

I'm sure Wen Zhong is used to being disliked and distrusted by the kings he serves. But unless subtitles screw up, Gou Jian says at least twice in 19 and 20, when he's confessing shortcomings to whomever, 'I should have listened to Wen Zhong'. Specifically Wen Zhong and not Fan Li, who didn't bother telling him he shouldn't fight.

[rasetsunyo.livejournal.com]

But I want to boot him any time he takes a formal leave of anyone. He sounds pompous and immature

Dunno, to me he sounds (and looks) kind of impudent. It seems deliberate. Not trying for properly humble, in any case.

[flemmings.livejournal.com]

I thought he sounded impudent too, like he was overdoing the gestures and tone to thumb his nose at the big muckeity-mucks; but then I figured it was just me not knowing mandarin. Only why would he go around being impudent to everyone including Ya Yu? (Much prefer him when he says whatever the original is of 'See yourselves out.')

[rasetsunyo.livejournal.com]

Oh that's true. Yiping-kun needs to work on his period acting.

不送 "won't see you out" if memory serves.

[feliciter.livejournal.com]

He sounds pompous and immature

He sounds like he's overdoing the drama-accent which characeterizes many of his other pronouncements, though why specifically for leave-taking I haven't the faintest.

Fan Li, who didn't bother telling him he shouldn't fight.

It just looks manifestly unfair that Fan Li seemed to be placed on a higher footing than Wen Zhong from the start, even if Fan Li is much more politically savvy. Gou Jian does listen to what everyone has to say (e.g. getting everyone's opinion re: Ji Wan) and admits his mistakes (to a certain extent) after the event - just that he doesn't always take advice before it.

[flemmings.livejournal.com]

It just looks manifestly unfair that Fan Li seemed to be placed on a higher footing than Wen Zhong from the start, even if Fan Li is much more politically savvy younger and prettier.

There. Fixed.

Wen Zhong's initial charmlessness, mulishness, and refusal to kneel to the man who's just saved his life has to count for a few black marks. A king may value a man of uncompromising honesty, and I think Gou Jian does even from the start, but only a saint would love him.

admits his mistakes (to a certain extent) after the event - just that he doesn't always take advice before it.

He takes the advice he wants to hear. Shi Mai and Hao Jin were both telling him to wage the fatal war with Wu, while Wen Zhong was hanging out white lanterns. Gou Jian listened to the wrong advisors.