Woxin 36-37

[flemmings]

I see what you mean about Xi Shi's actress phoning in her part. Oh well. It's like opera. OK, he weighs 300 pounds. I'll pretend he's an underfed young artist. OK, she's a dreary drip. I'll pretend she's a ravishing beauty.

But tell me again why she chose as she did? All I see in Fu Chai is alpha-male-wannabe smugness begging for a comedown. Hey, your tender-hearted king can cut men in two. Some recommendation. (He deserves Zheng Dan. Really. They'd make a good couple.)

That outburst of Bo Pi's in 31, the scene where Wu Zi Xu and Bo Pi have finally had it with each other, and IIRC pretty much say, in so many words, I'd rather *die* than go on working with him. I wondered at the time how calculated the outburst was on Bo Pi's part, or if it was pure honne from both of them. Bo Pi always looks so much like he's got an agenda that I automatically assume he always does. Belatedly I wonder if I'm wrong. And while Shi Mai contradicts himself so often in the early eps you never know where you are with him, later on at least he becomes marginally more straightforward. Bo Pi... I begin to headdesk with Bo Pi.

And if they hate each other and if they never got on and if both Helu and Fu Chai were playing them off against each other, however consciously or otherwise, what's all this about Bo Pi being WZX's protege to start with?

Kewl!Gou Jian may be too good to be true, and/or calculated fan service on the part of the writer, but I can live with it. It makes a nice change from people who do the wrong thing for the right reasons, or the wrong thing for the wrong reasons, or the wrong thing because they're nasty slimy slugs.

And still, you know- there's something between Gou Jian and Wen Zhong, some fundamental mutual recognition and esteem. 'You don't deserve to die.' Even when he's planning dastardly policy (to say nothing of bribing officials), Wen Zhong is still somehow the moral touchstone of the series. (I'm a westerner from the Christian tradition. I get vertigo if there are no moral touchstones, so possibly I see them even if they don't exist.) I don't know what it is between the two of them, and the subtitles don't help at all. It's all in the body language. But Gou Jian relates to him in ways I don't see him relating to anyone else. Even Ya Yu and Fan Li are different, though Ya Yu I suppose comes closest.

Though speaking of fan service- god, they had to do it, didn't they, the better to break our hearts later. The scene with Gou Jian and Fan Li after Fan Li returns, holding hands as Gou Jian pulls him into the stable. Gou Jian never takes anyone's hand but Ya Yu's. And talking all night on the bed of sticks where Ya Yu won't join him. That *hurt*, far more than wibbly-mouthed Fan Li bidding farewell to whey-faced Xi Shi. OK, it's Gou Jian/ Fan Li OTP for me now. Fu Chai just... isn't in the running any more. (Are you *sure* Gou Jian never got any for twenty years, rasetsunyo? I'm not, not after that scene. Though my bullet-proof kink has always said Ku Cheng for casual release. Is another reason why I wondered was he a eunuch.)

I dragged my feet through the first 20 eps because I couldn't stand to see the inevitable progress of Gou Jian's downfall. And now I drag my feet through the last five because I can't stand to see the inevitable progress of Gou Jian's victory. Maybe I'm too sensitive. Or maybe this series really does take no prisoners.

Comments

[rasetsunyo.livejournal.com]

Bo Pi and WZX, hmm, I'd give a lot to know the History between those two. Quite early on Wen Zhong pit Bo Pi against WZX by saying something like, "WZX might in fact be your mentor; but did he truly do it for you?" One must assume it suit his purposes at the time.

Perfect!Gou Jian wearies me, if only because of vague associations with Ann Rice and a certain blond French vampire. >_>

Are you so sure Gou Jian never got any for twenty years

They were Only Talking? *wide-eyed naivete*

Must confess it did cross my mind but I felt the scriptwriters were trying to assert Fan Li's iron-cast heterosexuality with the entire Xi Shi affair which gave the whole thing a rather off taste.

Some Chinese viewers assumed Ku Cheng was an eunuch too, and were puzzled at the eventual mustache. There is a certain almost feminine grace to his gestures, the way he holds himself and especially the way he walks. I dunno, clearly he must be of high birth/position if everyone except the King and Queen calls him 大人. Tellingly the equivalent person in the Wu court is never even named, in the credits he's just Fu Chai's body servant. (or however you translate 代臣)

Maybe I'm too sensitive. Or maybe this series really does take no prisoners.

Or maybe you just like happy endings too much.

[rasetsunyo.livejournal.com]

On Xi Shi: the blazing fires that is Fu Chai's heart melted the ice that is Xi Shi! Blurgh. Or maybe as paleaswater says it's the beard that did it. it looks good on him.

[flemmings.livejournal.com]

Perfect!Gou Jian wearies me, if only because of vague associations with Ann Rice and a certain blond French vampire. >_>

But there's not that much of perfect!Gou Jian to start with, not compared with Would you stop and think a minute??!!Gou Jian of the first eps. And Lestat never talks about the way of Heaven or whatever the correct translation of that is.

Err- if Ya Yu isn't enough to establish Gou Jian's cast-iron heterosexuality, I can't see why Fan Li's essentially romantic-love (and for three or is it six years, love-at-a-distance) with Xi Shi would establish his. Aside from giggly hijinks with the woman who lives in his house, what's there between them? 'Oh she wants to die for me, I guess I must be in love with her' + any male's reluctance to lose his woman to another man.

I felt the scriptwriters were trying to assert Fan Li's iron-cast heterosexuality with the entire Xi Shi affair which gave the whole thing a rather off taste.

'The whole thing' is what? Xi Shi? or the night with Gou Jian? that gives you an off taste.

*That's* Fu Chai's beard? Yer joking. I was waiting for something that would give him, you know, WZX-type gravitas.

[rasetsunyo.livejournal.com]

Gou Jian/Ya Yu defies all the normal assumptions about m/f relationships, and therefore sexuality as understood in the Western sense doesn't enter the equation at all. Besides Gou Jian is the King, the King's heart does not belong to one person alone even if the person is as awesome and amazing as Ya Yu. While Fan Li/Xi Shi is so conventionally romantic OMG One Twoo Wuv!! that I can only assume the script is trying to write Fan Li straight.

Fan Li/Xi Shi gives Gou Jian/Fan Li smexings an off taste because it lowers the tone. I mean, assuming we are to tease motivations from canon (corrective AU is very pleasant but the not as satisfying as making it work within canon, IMO at least) what can we possibly say? Fan Li returns from Wu after an additional 3 years' imprisonment by Fu Chai, resigned to giving up his Twoo Wuv to the Bully of Wu. Gou Jian is glad to see him and comforts him that night. Maybe I just lament the unspoken connection in the earlier of the series.

(Or maybe what all this really means is I think Gou Jian should be Fan Li's One Twoo Wuv and that this Xi Shi is an unworthy rival for Fan Li's affections.)

[flemmings.livejournal.com]

Gou Jian is glad to see him and comforts him that night.

Not how I saw it, actually. More, new!Gou Jian has missed Fan Li desperately in the years he was gone and just has so much to *tell* him. Like, we got a new kingdom here and here's how it works

Maybe I just lament the unspoken connection in the earlier of the series.

Yes, well, but... personal prejudice here, me not being a subtle watcher and missing many of the signs of that unspoken correction; but the old Gou Jian was buttoned up so tight I never knew which way he'd jump. Hissy fits and suggestive swords- there always seemed a possibility that he'd actually use it. Like, I only had Fan Li's word they were 知己.

The new Gou Jian is the result of the fracturing of the old Gou Jian and it does things differently. I wait to see if the Conqueror of Wu is the new Gou Jian or the person hiding beneath that appearance. But even if it's the latter- enh, when circumstances have come between yourself and your Other Half, you're likely to treasure your other Other Half more.

[rasetsunyo.livejournal.com]

Yup that's pretty much how I saw it too. Was thinking hypothetically along the lines of Now How Would We Get Them Into Bed? As things stand sex is really beside the point. Is why I said Gou Jian doesn't get any.

[flemmings.livejournal.com]

You're probably right he doesn't get any. Remains the possibility that eventually he stops wanting any. If I ever find out what he's thinking, that may be an avenue to explore.

[paleaswater.livejournal.com]

Well, Xi Shi is easy to explain. Let's just assume that she really is as young and fresh and devoted as the series want us to think, then it's not so hard to find one attracted. But what does it matter? No more than that pretty shop girl that Fan Li was ogling at the beginning of the series. Maybe a little more because she's personally devoted to him, but she is not 知己 after all。

[rasetsunyo.livejournal.com]

But clearly she was Meant to matter since Fan Li launched into that whole spiel about how my Home will be whereever you are! It's not something one says to random fresh young things with a bad case of hero worship.

But of course 知己 > everything. :p

[feliciter.livejournal.com]

Did think Ku Cheng was a eunuch or just v. young at the start, on account of the not aging and lack of facial hair until much later. Felt v. sorry for that equivalent Wu person at the end, and he seems to take a lot more crap from everyone than Ku Cheng had to.

Fan Li's iron-cast heterosexuality with the entire Xi Shi affair which gave the whole thing a rather off taste.

I can't decide what Fan Li was feeling when Gou Jian was "opening up" to him, especially after the Xi Shi-wuvin' that came before (in his house, in Wu, just before she was going to be sent away).

html pwnz me

[feliciter.livejournal.com]

why she chose as she did

There was that scene where he stayed by her bed for 3 days+nights after she got psychosomatically sick through sympathizing with the starving people. According to some of the Chinese articles, director and scriptwriter were presenting a revisionist view of Fu Chai as a HUMAN BEING instead of the foolish tyrant of the moral ed lessons. To me Fu Chai would look more dignified with the beard than the Dumbledore!facial hair of his old man and WZX (redolent of Peking opera for me, probably).

Bo Pi being WZX's protege

WZX does say that Bo Pi wasn't even the pick of the lot of talents that he got at wholesale price from Chu, just v.gd at playing the game, and helping the higher-ups to get what they wanted before they realized it themselves; perhaps that was partly the reason that he Bo Pi was allowed to rise to his current position instead of WZX simply crushing him much earlier or ignoring his progress.

Gou Jian relates to him in ways I don't see him relating to anyone else

Wen Zhong is too straightforward to tell white lies to Gou Jian, and he takes full responsibility for his actions to the point of jeopardising his own life. But still Gou Jian doesn't trust him in the way that he does Ya Yu.

Gou Jian/Fan Li OTP

Fan Li swings both ways XD But powerful and touching though that scene was, to me it was too...expository(?) to really push my OTP buttons. I should probably rewatch, then. (Not really spoiler, but the last glimpse of Fan Li/Xi Shi feels like it belongs to another genre of series completely >_>)

Re: html pwnz me

[flemmings.livejournal.com]

But still Gou Jian doesn't trust him in the way that he does Ya Yu.

Well no, and I wouldn't expect it. As paleaswater says, Ya Yu is family, all senses of the word. Hell, if even untrustworthy Shi Mai counts as Yue-type family, Wen Zhong doesn't stand a chance. Though now I may get all sniffly over Wen Zhong selflessly serving the man who will never trust him.

the last glimpse of Fan Li/Xi Shi feels like it belongs to another genre of series completely >_>)

Well, so did giggly let-me-pull-your-coat-off Fan Li and Xi Shi. Several people have been badly served by this series and by me one of them is Fan Li, who's just coasting on his reputation.