'But will no one think of the nonwesterners??'

[flemmings]

Might as well rant on my own turf rather than at ffrants.

'On characters being gay or straight' may be fine if you're talking about characters in western shows who themselves are likely to think in the categories of gay, straight or bi. Otherwise, I have my doubts.

Gay, straight and bi aren't universal human traits. They're social constructs, invented by western and specifically NAmerican society- hence the rigidity of the classifications and the assumption that they *are* universal human traits, she says snottily. Arguing which category Japanese characters fall into is about as reasonable as arguing whether they come from the east coast or the west, with a subset of people saying Hey what about us heartlanders, yeah right, no one believes anyone lives in the flyover states.

Our categories and definitions illuminate nothing about characters from other cultures. It only makes it easier to regard them as Just Like Us. And they aren't. That's why I love them.

As for arguing in all seriousness whether Hakkai or Gojou are gay or straight-- oh well, I'm sure it passes the time pleasantly for some people, and the others are simply mad. But I *will* echo ViceFearless Leader's dictum for those who get in too deep: Taxonomy is not discussion.

Nonetheless cultures will do as cultures do do, and westerners will still try to pigeonhole people into gay straight or bi, and the Japanese will still assign blood types to House and Wilson, and the universe will continue to unfold as it should.

And I, I shall continue to speculate on who loves Fan Li more, Wen Zhong or Gou Jian. As if I didn't know. (Roll on the new year, roll on my birthday, roll on slow delivery from Wherever and my month's convalescence.)

Comments

[rasetsunyo.livejournal.com]

Sorry reposting with edits:

Oh shoot I forgot all about that 斷袖 thing. No this wasn't a reference to 斷袖 I don't think (this predates the 斷袖 story doesn't it, though the script in general isn't very particular about anachronisms. Must have figured that since modern-pronunciation Mandarin's an anachronism might as well go all the way). Gou Jian said it's 割袍斷義, but my Google-fu fails once again. Throws up a lot of online wuxia novel chapters but no useful definition or etymology. The words themselves literally translate "cutting the robe, breaking the friendship/relationship/however 義 translates." I'd assume that means that if Fan Li leaves even after recieving the cut piece of Wen Zhong's robe, he is in fact severing their friendship. Which is pretty slashy in and of itself.

But yeah, gay/straight/bi not very useful for thinking about these characters at all.

[flemmings.livejournal.com]

I kind of figured that Wen Zhong's cut sleeve was quite a different context than the usual cut sleeve. Since, as you say, it's a much earlier period. But that kind of misunderstanding and incomplete information is the sort of thing fen do use to argue the sexuality of nonwestern characters.

Which is why I'm hoping you'll continue with your comments on Woxin, because even when I watch it I'll be seeing it with nonChinese eyes from a totally foreign cultural perspective. And I'd kind of like to know what it looks like to someone a lot closer to the culture than I'll ever be.

[rasetsunyo.livejournal.com]

Yeah well like I said, the script does contain anachronisms, though only in expressions and turns of phrases as far as I can tell (which isn't very). The only reason I know is because of this phrase 醉翁之意不在酒。Literally "the drunkard's meaning does not lie with wine." It's used a couple of times and from context I gathered it means that a particular action has some indirect, hidden meaning; e.g. someone might be making life difficult for you but in reality they're trying to get at your boss. zdic.com confirms that this is indeed the modern usage but the original usage was much more positive: 醉瓮之意不在酒，在乎山水之间也。"The joy of being drunk lies not in wine, but in the beautiful scenery before one's eyes." It was also first used in the Song dynasty. So yeah, I don't think the script's all that concerned with accurately getting every single detail down; just a general educated elite feel.

Sure, I'll go on commenting as long as there's someone to read it. Once I can get Certain Members of the Household to stop hogging the TV, that is.