flemmings: (Default)
flemmings ([personal profile] flemmings) wrote2007-12-02 01:09 pm
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Headbanging time with Shinohara Udo

I should stop reading, or trying to read, Shinohara Udo. Or rather, I should stop reading her HK-set stories. Or rather I should stop trying to read the Chinese she peppers her HK-set stories with.

See, here we have a repeated character- 唔 - that exists happily in Japanese, even if MIME doesn't have it. Consists of 口 (mouth radical) + 吾 (I, right element) to form a kanji that also means I. She has a bunch of her henchmen apologize: 對唔住, furigana'd as sumimasen. She has her hero say お唔該, furigana'd as arigatou. (And why's that kana お there, huh?) I look the hanzi up in Mandarin Tools, I look it up in my paper dictionary, I hazard a guess it's pronounced wu and look it up in both places again and can't find it.

She has another hanzi, 口 (mouth radical) + 地 (earth, right element.) Her gangsters use a compound "我 + mouth-earth" that's furigana'd as ware-tachi. Can't find it anywhere.

She has a third kanji, evidently nonexistent in Japanese: 口 (mouth radical) + 卑 (base, vulgar; right element.) Add it to the kanji 酒 and the compound gets furigana'd as beer. I go look up this mouth-lowborn kanji in MT (mouth radical plus 7 lower bound to 9 upper bound.) Do I find it? No. I find 唔 wu2 instead, that insists with transparent sincerity that it was always there and I just didn't see it the first two times.

Johnson spot blindness apart, is there an explanation for these mysterious mouth hanzi? Are they special Cantonese-only? Did she invent them herself? What?

Right now I could do with some mean-mouthed sake myself, but there's no way I'm leaving the house.

[identity profile] mvrdrk.livejournal.com 2007-12-02 09:29 pm (UTC)(link)
A lot of mouth radical kanji are used for sounds for which there are no proper kanji, for example, slang or dialect. I suspect what you're coming across is cantonese dialect and the dictionary I sent you is Mandarin.

Hmm, from the Cantonese dictionary at http://www.cantonese.sheik.co.uk/scripts/wordsearch.php?level=0 I get
唔 m4 ng4 not

啤酒 is standard for beer, that ought to be in the dictionary

[identity profile] flemmings.livejournal.com 2007-12-02 11:59 pm (UTC)(link)
(gloom) 啤酒 is in the dictionary as well as MT, insisting with transparent sincerity that it was always there and I just didn't see it the first two times.

Fine. I shall now pass over any mouth hanzi with the mental note 'unknown Cantonese emoticon.'

[identity profile] rasetsunyo.livejournal.com 2007-12-03 03:01 am (UTC)(link)
Yeah Cantonese does make up characters a lot. It's a problem when reading HK editions of whatever. D:

[identity profile] paleaswater.livejournal.com 2007-12-03 10:23 pm (UTC)(link)
There are Cantonese dictionaries as well, which I suspect would be available online. They do use tons of these mouth hanzi, and 唔 is one of the most common ones.

[identity profile] flemmings.livejournal.com 2007-12-04 02:23 am (UTC)(link)
But to use them you'd need a Cantonese character set, unless like MT they let you enter radical and stroke number.