flemmings | (no subject)

Reading Liz William's Snake Agent, borrowed from

paleaswater. I think just maybe I'd have realized on my own what

paleaswater said about it: William's Chinese hell is actually Christian in one fundamental respect-- it sides with and promotes evil. That's not how hell works in Konron no Tama (yes, yes- everything I know about the afterworld I learned from Japanese manga) and it keeps tripping me up, especially because her Hell is also as bureaucratic as one expects a Chinese hell to be. But Hell doesn't exist in moral opposition to Heaven: it's just another part of the way things are, and its demon denizens have their own uhh human feelings like you and me. Yeah, so they torture sinners on occasion. That's their job, see?

OTOH it stand in nice contrast to the Peter May mystery I'm reading in tandem, that uses 'oriental' quite seriously to talk about Chinese people and has characters talk about 'the mysterious east' ditto. I hope that's just a set-up and we'll stop having little cultural lessons thrown at us eventually, but not with any great hope.

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Actually, it's modeled more after Haw Par Villa, which has to be the finest amusement park ever created for the edification of children. I want to go there. so. bad. Who wouldn't?

* The 10 Courts of Hell and other Myths at the Singapore Haw Par Villa (http://www.jehpin.com/travel/singapore/hawpar/), a full explanation of hell and the sights to be enjoyed there.

* Unofficial Singapore Website: Haw Par Villa (http://www.geocities.com/TheTropics/5994/hawpar.html), a handy quick reference chart of which level of hell you're headed for.

* Flickr photoset: Haw Par Villa (http://www.flickr.com/photos/doctorow/sets/925506/)

* Singapore Paranormal Investigators (http://www.spi.com.sg/spi_files/haw_par/main00.htm), lots more fun pages on this topic!

Oh dear...I think Haw Par Villa has closed down. I think you may still be able to see the grounds but as a "theme park" it's gone!

I went once when I was a little girl...and the 'Hells' bit scared me witless. NOT a place for children...you know!!! ^_^

It was closed down due to lack of interest and they want to build a condominium on the land I believe. You still get the odd touris tracking it it down for a look and since the gatekeepers feel sorry for them they usually just let them in for a little wander round.

Hmm. To this end, I spent some time yesterday cruising around the Internet to find out. The villa hasn't closed; admission is free, but it costs a buck to get into hell now. But the really interesting thing (to me) was all the people from Singapore who not only seem to believe that it is closed, but often insist that it is in comments to the tourists from Elsewhere who are posting their current vacation snaps -- in the face of the evidence, as it were. Someone could probably generate a nifty scholarly paper about that.

(Most residents mention that they went as children. Typical American Grownup Tourists adore this sort of thing. Me too. :)

A case of wishful thinking taken to its logical end, or just the residents of LRD remembering someone saying it was going to be closed down and translating that as it is even in he face, as you say, of photographs recently taken there. 'Went as children' and have been traumatized ever since.

Why are the matchmakers in hell, huh? The world must be peopled and how do you do that without matchmakers?

Yeah parents took us there. At the time there probably weren't that many places you could tke the family for a 'day out'. ^__^ Not that the lRD has gotten anymore interesting over the years.

More shopping centres than you can shake a stick at, more restaurants and more hotels...and there's the high probability that they're going to try their berst to turn it into a Vegas of some sort.

I am SOO not keen on THAT idea

I stand corrected. I guess sometimes it just surprises me about hings long forgotten about his place...hmm maybe I could take the in-laws there on their next visit!

maybe I could take the in-laws there on their next visit!

Err- run it past your husband first, I'd say. mike up there did say very specifically Typical American Grownup Tourists.

Oh absolutely. Forget the in-laws -- take me! Meeee! :D

Y'know ttg and mvrdrk et cie had never been on that wonderous Underground Tour in their own city? Touristy me was all over it -- can't get enough of dank basements and decorated toilets. I expect its a similar phenomenon; people aren't properly fascinated by the familiar.

Mh well- shall point out that neither ttg and mvrdrk are native to Seattle so it's not as familiar to them as that. I think people either have a touristy mindset or they don't, and if you don't touristing isn't much fun. Says the woman who has escorted French cousins up the CN Tower and to the Science Center though not, thank god, to Niagara Falls; and been escorted atchi kotchi in France and Japan while desperately wishing she could be left to her own devices.

Well Hubby has always wanted to go...so if they looked horrified I can just shrug my sholders and point in the direction of their son! ^__^ I think they're up to it.

His Mum would probably find it all makes sense anyway. She's interesting that way.

Oh and Mikeneko...anytime you're in town give us a heads up and I'll play tourist guide! With pleasure.

Oh, had no idea they built something like that in Singapore. Hehe. Actually, there was a temple in the city of Fengdu (www.tellthetruthtravel.com/Ghost_City.htm) in the Three Gorges that is supposed to be the model of eighteen levels of hell. I went there before the dam was up. It's quite amazing, though the scupltures I saw there look just like the ones at Haw Par Villa.

(jaded) Seen one Buddhist hell, you've seen them all.

(The link's a bit screwy, btw. It starts by going to my lj.)

Oh, and the inscription on the stele in the colour picture says, to a Japanese reader- Shit! Hell! I mean, yeah, 畜生 does mean beast, but I never see it in that sense.

I dunno. These look sort of cool and classy in the pictures -- I don't see how anyone could bear to wipe these places out. I was following wikipedia links trying to figure out if this also was going underwater, and I can't really tell from what I was seeing. It seems like it's going to be above the water level. Or not.

I think these are supposed to remain above water level. At least that's what the gov't says. Highly unreliable chaps.

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