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Favourite Five Fantasy Nonhumans
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nojojojojojojojo's entry (there was a character in Arslan, I think it was, that did that to my fingers too; had to keep going back and removing a's and consonants from the name that never never ends...)
Unlike her source, I tend to individuals over species. Species are a problem, as I'll discuss later.
1. Goujun, Saiyuki Gaiden.
And His Brothers, if only she'd included them. Red eyes in human dragons are not original to her; they exist in Yasha Kisouden as well, but I know nothing more of the trope and wish I did.
2. Aoarashi, 100 Demons.
And a good thing I don't do species because 'Ima's youkai' covers an awful lot of territory. This is specifically Aoarashi out of his human body and in either the silver-haired black-robed form, where he's such a contrast to the ordinary manga silver-haired character, or his snub-nosed dragon one, where he behaves exactly as in his human body: GLOMP chomp chomp. His horns are also proper deer horns, unlike Goujun-sama's.
He's also thick as two short planks, which pains me, but IME intelligence per se is not a characteristic that grabs mangaka interest nor that of their readers. I might try compiling a list of Strikingly Intelligent manga characters some time; I think it'd be very short. Of course it's hard to make an intelligent character interesting, unless they're Sherlock Holmes out doing something (solving mysteries) that needs intelligence to be done. Going the Peter Wimsey route and having them quote Donne to demonstrate their brilliance Does Not Work.
3. (should this be Favourite Five Dragons?) Temeraire
And specifically Temeraire. Because he has true sweetness of character. But then a human Temeraire would be sweet too, so why does it matter that he's a dragon? And that one I don't know. Maybe because he's big and strong and potentially dangerous if riled.
4. Rakushun, 12 Kingdoms
Obviously, because; who couldn't love Rakushun? Would it be any different if he were totally human? Probably not; but it matters to me that he's a mouse most of the time, and for choice. OTOH it's possible it matters to me because he's the total corrective to Disney; OTOOH if he weren't a mouse-- if he were in his human form always-- he'd be a different person. Thus: mouse!Rakushun.
I'm not a fan of the 12K kirin generally, bar a fondness for poor hapless tries-his-best and out=of-it Keiki. Indeed, I think I'm probably not a fan of 12K itself. It's a cold nasty world, the 12K one, and fundamentally very depressing; of all the characters in it, the only one who conveys any warmth to me is Rakushun. Everyone else has some of the flatness of the 3K warriors; which may just mean they're in the wrong genre and would look different if we weren't trying so hard to be Chinese in our approach.
5. Kaonashi, Sen to Chihiro
Now *here*, you see, is a not-human who's utterly not human, and what a contrast to the previous four it is. Mind, the other StC non-human characters I like-- Zeniba, Kamaji, Rin-- do remind one of humans in their Looking Glass fashion, while still being distinctly not.
But this does raise a question. If you have the utterly not-human, especially if they're not-humanoid (or animal, because that evokes 'pet' associations) can you make them sympathetic without giving them overtly human psychology? Even Hortas are understandable in human psychological terms. Which leaves--mh yes. What does it leave? That comment on the original entry: The aesthetic sin is weird creatures acting human. anthropomorphism? Where, say, does Watership Down fall according to that measure? HAL? Hell, even unaware ghosts? Is it in fact that we can only understand the weird by interpreting it in familiar this-world terms (by analogy to human or animal behaviour) even if those terms don't quite fit the actual phenomenon?
nojojojojojojojo's entry (there was a character in Arslan, I think it was, that did that to my fingers too; had to keep going back and removing a's and consonants from the name that never never ends...)Unlike her source, I tend to individuals over species. Species are a problem, as I'll discuss later.
1. Goujun, Saiyuki Gaiden.
And His Brothers, if only she'd included them. Red eyes in human dragons are not original to her; they exist in Yasha Kisouden as well, but I know nothing more of the trope and wish I did.
2. Aoarashi, 100 Demons.
And a good thing I don't do species because 'Ima's youkai' covers an awful lot of territory. This is specifically Aoarashi out of his human body and in either the silver-haired black-robed form, where he's such a contrast to the ordinary manga silver-haired character, or his snub-nosed dragon one, where he behaves exactly as in his human body: GLOMP chomp chomp. His horns are also proper deer horns, unlike Goujun-sama's.
He's also thick as two short planks, which pains me, but IME intelligence per se is not a characteristic that grabs mangaka interest nor that of their readers. I might try compiling a list of Strikingly Intelligent manga characters some time; I think it'd be very short. Of course it's hard to make an intelligent character interesting, unless they're Sherlock Holmes out doing something (solving mysteries) that needs intelligence to be done. Going the Peter Wimsey route and having them quote Donne to demonstrate their brilliance Does Not Work.
3. (should this be Favourite Five Dragons?) Temeraire
And specifically Temeraire. Because he has true sweetness of character. But then a human Temeraire would be sweet too, so why does it matter that he's a dragon? And that one I don't know. Maybe because he's big and strong and potentially dangerous if riled.
4. Rakushun, 12 Kingdoms
Obviously, because; who couldn't love Rakushun? Would it be any different if he were totally human? Probably not; but it matters to me that he's a mouse most of the time, and for choice. OTOH it's possible it matters to me because he's the total corrective to Disney; OTOOH if he weren't a mouse-- if he were in his human form always-- he'd be a different person. Thus: mouse!Rakushun.
I'm not a fan of the 12K kirin generally, bar a fondness for poor hapless tries-his-best and out=of-it Keiki. Indeed, I think I'm probably not a fan of 12K itself. It's a cold nasty world, the 12K one, and fundamentally very depressing; of all the characters in it, the only one who conveys any warmth to me is Rakushun. Everyone else has some of the flatness of the 3K warriors; which may just mean they're in the wrong genre and would look different if we weren't trying so hard to be Chinese in our approach.
5. Kaonashi, Sen to Chihiro
Now *here*, you see, is a not-human who's utterly not human, and what a contrast to the previous four it is. Mind, the other StC non-human characters I like-- Zeniba, Kamaji, Rin-- do remind one of humans in their Looking Glass fashion, while still being distinctly not.
But this does raise a question. If you have the utterly not-human, especially if they're not-humanoid (or animal, because that evokes 'pet' associations) can you make them sympathetic without giving them overtly human psychology? Even Hortas are understandable in human psychological terms. Which leaves--mh yes. What does it leave? That comment on the original entry: The aesthetic sin is weird creatures acting human. anthropomorphism? Where, say, does Watership Down fall according to that measure? HAL? Hell, even unaware ghosts? Is it in fact that we can only understand the weird by interpreting it in familiar this-world terms (by analogy to human or animal behaviour) even if those terms don't quite fit the actual phenomenon?
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And.. and..
May I friend you? Contrary to what I thought previously, Zan told me you don't smite people.
*cowers*
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IOW: Yes of course you may friend, no need to ask. Welcome aboard. And never take anything I say seriously.
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And I love the questions at the end.
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The Japanese OVAs I've seen all do this-- Arslan Senki, Lodoss Wars, 12K. I notice it more because it's such a contrast to manga and manga-based anime series. Those are at the very least burrow-friendly (Bleach), if they aren't actually laying themselves wide open and saying C'mon in (Saiyuki ^_^).
The questions I asked myself were a way of figuring whether all non-human characters are supposed to stand as symbols of something human. With more sleep under my belt (thank you end of DST) I think very much not. It may be hard to express complete Other, and one may only be able to understand Other through recourse to human terms, but I still think it exists.
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Oooo... Yes. Saiyuki is very much 'C'mon in'. I'll have to watch more OVAs with that difference in mind.
I agree with your more awake self, but I'll admit that I come at it more from a hard SF background with that than through fantasy. There's a LOT of 'Other' in SF, both responses to them and exploring interaction with intelligent beings that can be utterly unlike us.
I think it also depends on the creator. Some (like the thinly masked District 9) very much have the Other as a stand-in for people, others go further out. A few give human faces to something entirely Other (I like contemplating Ghost in the Shell that way and lots of Cherryh's folks including Cyteen). Sometimes I think it has closer ties to understanding the possibilities of a potential enemy/predator/prey/ally, but it seems a basic need to imagine the possibilities. Understanding, delving that Other can be done through both interpreting through human terms, or I've also seen it down through simply an uninflected showing of Other actions in response to a situation.
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The thought of SF Others did cross my mind, but I'm not well read in the genre. Cherryh's whatevers did stick in my mind (the gigantic things that never forget anything) but the thing that makes her (and I assume other writers') aliens memorable in their own terms-- that 'uninflected showing of Other actions in response to a situation'-- is what keeps me from getting involved with them. The detached viewing, the non-involvement, the emotional distance. At its worst it approaches anthropological field reports-- 'and here are their cooking customs and here are their governing systems' (I admire Leguin but I know which anthropologists' daughter started this trend)-- but even at its best I find it chilly.
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It's not always to my taste, I'll admit I mostly go to those books for the amazing descriptions of the people and capabilities, and some of the political and social lessons.
Cherryh's "Cuckoo's Egg" has Duun, one of the Shonunin, a Hatani (Renunciate is close enough), an alien who adopts a human baby as a son to learn from him to see what these humans are about. It's actually very connected and very emotional in the way of an Other. It all has to go through human thought and language, but she still does a great job of being/feeling as well as showing Other in human terms. The one I called out, Cyteen is from the viewpoint of a children growing up as accelerated genetic duplicates of people or those that were engineered, and how they learn and care in different terms then others. I also loved the pack intelligences of Vernor Vinge's "A Fire Upon the Deep" and he really gets into how they work things out and think and feel; and how different that can be from people. The sections written from their pov are amazing in how they convey that difference in how they view and think about the world but all still in English. *laughs*.
But now that I think more, those are all very harsh environments and worlds, too. *thoughtfuls*
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I kind of boggle at overpopulation in the third century AD. I mean, I've seen for myself what no birth control results in (Spain, a mere thirty years ago) but that's with modern medicine as well. My image was very much more chronic childbirth and chronic infantile death; which may have happened as well, but certainly there was a large enough population that the generals could raise what seems to me enormous armies again and again.
I also loved the pack intelligences of Vernor Vinge's "A Fire Upon the Deep
I haven't read that one, but it rang a faint bell. I know I did read a work ages ago where some race had a hive mind/ common intelligence, in what I recall as a fairly beneficent climate, and the kerblonxed attempts of individual humans to understand how the mindset could work.