flemmings | 'The past is another country'

Once (Liu Bei) asked for lodging at a household, and a young man came to pay his respects. The lad turned out to be a hunter called Liu An. He wanted to offer the inspector some game but, unable to find any, butchered his wife. At dinner Liu Bei asked 'What kind of meat is this?' 'Wolf, replied Liu An. Suspecting nothing, Liu Bei ate his fill and retired. Toward dawn he went to the rear to fetch his horse and noticed a woman's corpse in the kitchen. Her arms had ben carved away. Then Liu Bei realized what he had eaten and tears of gratitude streamed from his eyes. As Liu Bei mounted, Liu An said, 'I wish I could accompany you, Inspector, but with my elderly mother to care for, I cannot travel. Liu Bei expressed his thanks and rode out of the district.

Suddenly the road ahead was darkened by dust. In the distance Liu Bei recognized Cao Cao's men.... Liu Bei told Cao Cao about the fall of Xiaopei, his separation from his (oath) brothers, and the capture of his family. Cao Cao shed tears of sympathy. Liu Bei also related how Liu An had slaughtered his wife to feed him. Cao Cao ordered Sun Qian to reward the hunter with one hundred taels of silver. (ch19)

If Liu Bei is the hero, she says palely, I'm not sure I want to meet the villain.

Truly, I don't know what Liu An's problem is with having a mother. A footnote to this passage says

In (a collection of tales) dating to the 1470s, 'Hua Guan Suo zhan' gives the following account of the formation of the brotherhood:
After the three, Guan, Zhang, and Liu Bei- had made their vows to Heaven in the temple of Jiang Ziya, Liu Bei said, "I am without family. You both have old and young to wory about. Your concern may cause a change of heart." Lord Guan replied, "I shall join you, elder brother, after I have killed them." Zhang Fei said, "How could you kill your own? You kill mine and I'll kill yours." "That is best," Liu Bei said.

Err yes. Of course. Can't let a few Confucian ties get in the way of oath brotherhood.

Now let's look at the death of Chen Gong later in the same chapter.

"And now," said Cao Cao, "what shall we do?" "Today," Chen Gong replied, "I look only for death." "And what of your mother," asked Cao, "your wife and your children?" "It is said, Gong responded, "that he who governs with filial duty will never cut off the sacrifices from a man's descendents. My lord, their fate lies with you. I am your captive and ask only for execution; I have no misgivings."

Shall I say that to date Cao Cao seems to be the only one who governs with filial duty? and possibly not always. He too may have been one of those many many warlords given to executing his enemies' families in batches and in toto, hanging their heads by the city gates. He certainly seems to have gone gungho after the man who was only indirectly responsible for his own father's death, though I fancy what I'm missing here is the role of blood debt that

mauvecloud mentioned a ways back.

(If Chen Gong's death scene isn't a deliberate appeal to that famous Chinese collective unconscious, I don't know what it is:

Cao Cao felt a lingering affection for his former companion, but Chen Gong strode brusquely down from the tower, shaking off the guards who tried to stop him. Cao Cao rose from his seat and wept to see him go, but Chen Gong never turned back. Cao Cao said to his men, "Take his family to the capital and see to their needs as long as they live. Anyone mistreating them will die." Though he heard Cao Cao, Chen Gong said nothing as he offered his neck to the executioner. The assembly wept. Cao Cao had the corpse placed in a double coffin and buried in Xucheng.

In my mind Cao Cao is played, against all casting expectation, by Uncle Ming, Chen Gong is played by Hu Jun, and very nice it is indeed.)

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

In my mind Cao Cao is played, against all casting expectation, by Uncle Ming, Chen Gong is played by Hu Jun, and very nice it is indeed.) This just makes me smile ... a lot! I think it;s more to do with you than with Uncle Ming though! ^_~ in my case!

Yeaaaaahhhh that Liu An story is kind of memorable. (I could start blabbing here about how there's no way for me to travel imaginatively back to the past while remaining some approximation of myself, but... never mind.)

If Liu Bei is the hero, she says palely, I'm not sure I want to meet the villain.

My first exposure was to the bowdlerized-for-kiddies tales, and chapters like that put me off the unexpurgated version. At least with I, Claudius the kinslaying is *understandable* (though the goings-on in Dream of Red Mansions make the Roman imperial family look like the Brady Bunch).

what Liu An's problem is with having a mother

Not as big a problem as having a wife, apparently. (Incidentally the Chinese rationale, at least as I understood it growing up, for saving your drowning mother rather than your wife, is that you can buy another wife, but not your mother. And of course the well-known comparison of a daughter married off to to water being thrown out of the basin.)

The kinslaying in I, Claudius put me off the Romans for life, though the bit that got me was executing the young son and daughter of whoever it was, and because the little girl was still a virgin and you can't kill virgins, the executioner raping her first. At least when you cut a guy off in all his generations you just massacre the family.

I don't recall hair-raising goings on in the Jia family especially, bar a couple of older males laying hands on their daughters in law; and that, I fancy, is a common feature of the system.

I read that later tale as saying Guan and Zhang were all ready to off their mothers in order to follow Liu Bei, except taht such a breach of Confucian morality being shocking, they agree to have the other off their mothers, or fathers, or grandparents, or whatever. Which is a touch blinkety-blink.

I think Liu Bei isn't the hero. I've come to the conclusion this story doesn't have a hero. He's the counter example.

Oh. And the wishy-washy.

Luo Guangzhong thinks he's the hero and Can Do No Wrong. Wishy-washy and wibbly and all. Cao Cao looks at him sideways and he drops his chopsticks all of a tremble. 'Oh it was that clap of thunder made me do it!' and everyone congratulates him on his quick thinking. Ohh the dumb, it hurts. How's about if you're plotting to kill someone, not being so consciously guilty OMG HE KNOWS!!!!!! every time you're in his presence. Short of taking out an ad there's no better way to convey 'hey dude I'm planning to off you soon.'

Of course Cao Cao already knows that. But still.

Oh yeah that was a really off-putting passage. I was like wtf he was grateful???

I would love to see Uncle Ming as Cao Cao. Alas that he didn't have a role in Red Cliff.

'The past is another country'

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