Woxin rewatch- eps11-15

[flemmings]

Thanks to everyone for the kind hyperbole comments on yesterday's fic. Alas I have mad next-day desires to tinker with it, and now I mustn't.

Don't know what crazy!Fu Chai is up to in the funeral scene. WZX seems to think it a clever act to reveal the other princes' attitudes. Like the other princes' attitudes were a deep dark secret? So maybe it's 裝瘋賣傻 foreshadowing Gou Jian's 裝瘋賣傻. OTOH if Gou Jian isn't 裝瘋賣傻ing, neither is Fu Chai. Ahh a mystery.

Note that Wu Zi Xu is also prepared to take the long view. 'In two or three decades Wu will have hegemony.' Fu Chai wants it at once. Is it possible to see Gou Jian's progression as one from Fu Chai impatience to WZX patience, wiliness and of course determination to be revenged? "When a cruel man is out of control, it brings disaster to the nation," says our not immensely humane chancellor. Irony, irony...

I don't really like Bo Pi. He has his moments, sure, and he can cook, which is always virtue in a man, and he does get Wen Zhong out of that stable, but only after a thoughtful B-R-I-B-E from Ye Yong. More importantly perhaps, if not him then who is there to obstruct WZX's plans, that tend to the bloodthirsty more often than not? But in my world, once a minister is known to be on the take, that's the end of him. I'm a bit kerblonxed by the prevailing attitude of 'Oh, Bo Pi? Honest statesman-- he stays bought.' I think Prince Lei, who I wish I didn't chronically think of as Vongole, is pissed because Bo Pi didn't stay bought, or not by him. And possibly something's missing in the subtitles, but when he hisses 'You'll die a violent death' at Bo Pi, I see no reason for Bo Pi to cringe and look so perturbed. Doesn't dying a violent death kind of go with being a) a soldier and b) a statesman in Spring-Autumn?

So much love for Ling Gu Fu, whose instinctive way of dealing with unwanted spirit statues is to tuck them under his arm and take them back where they belong. And why does his father-in-law have a cross on the table behind him in ep 13? I thought it was a stand of some kind, but it seems to be merely two crossed pieces of wood.

Ironic that if Yuan Luo is right, Gou Jian and Tang Li are actually abetting each other's efforts to undermine Shi Mai. But I can't really follow the political implications of putting Ji Kuai's statue in Ling Gu Fu's house. As ever, Ya Yu (in concert with Ku Cheng- you're *sure* this guy isn't a eunuch?) to the rescue.

And I suppose executing mutineers is par for the course, but getting rid of a hundred or so officers at a stroke (uhh-- literally) strikes thrifty-minded me as wasteful. And why was Fan Li looking so uncomfortable as Gou Jian was instructing Shi Mai in The Whole Duty of Courtiers? (which is so flat-footedly obvious in subtitles- share the king's concerns at court and behave yourself elsewhere- that something surely must have been lost?)

(Speaking of which, the subs constantly use the word 'benumb' for confuse or mislead or whatever. Eg Ling Gu Fu sends presents and women off to Brute 2 to benumb the situation. Annoying.)

Ye Yong is more loyal to Gou Jian than Gou Jian deserves. Yes, possibly Gou Jian is right in his implied 'I couldn't be nice to you on your return, you never know whose spies are watching'- but that's kind of undercut by sending first Wen Zhong and then Shi Mai to visit him.

There's a certain nail-pulling-out quality to the early eps on this disk, but as we know that's because I hate politics, especially politics mediated through subtitles. Once Fu Chai has his throne things get better. Eps 13, 14 and 15 are all about the Wen Zhong love, the Ya Yu love, and even a bit of Fan Li love: err, when they aren't about mucked-up spying and mucked-up raids.

As for Wen Zhong, we're certainly seeing the truth of WZX's remark wondering if it's a good thing for Gou Jian to have an honest man at his court. I like his servant too, who's picked up a lot of his master's manner. And I like him flouncing out of Fan Li's house with a curt 'good-bye' when Fan Li puts him off smoothly quite as much as I like him barging in in the earlier scene, outraged at what he thinks is Fan Li's betrayal, and not at all hurt by personally having lost face. Yeah- Wen Zhong is all about facing facts and saying exactly what he thinks, and Fan Li is all about avoiding unpleasantness. 'I'm afraid of being in trouble and I'm afraid of death.' While Fan Li still has more smarts, and Wen Zhong's honesty sometimes seems to impede his intelligence. "The king appointed me censor. That means he must want peace." How *does* the man survive?

But Fan Li-- Were those tears in his eyes when he realized Gou Jian had planned something major without telling him? Ohh, Gou Jian, you betrayed him first. No need for the pissiness when your scabbard-thingy fails. And of course wise!counsellor Ya Yu comes up with the practical plan to get him back, after the symbols and tokens haven't worked at all. Men, said Jessica. Not that cut sleeves and empty scabbards aren't poetic and romantic, but if you actually want your advisor in *Yue* and not *Chu*, you find out who it is he'll actually listen to; and don't sulk or sniff, as per inclination, that he doesn't listen to you his king or you his friend.

Comments

[rasetsunyo.livejournal.com]

Hyperbole, pfft. I speak truth.

crazy!Fu Chai

Foreshadows crazy!Fu Chai before surrender? I dunno what that was about revealing attitudes, frankly; I thought was just 裝瘋賣傻 to attract WZX's attention.

Bo Pi

I like Bo Pi, despite the shifty-eyed thing he has going. I don't know that anyone actually calls him honest. But I suppose he's expedient to work with, since he stays bought. On the Yue side they find him convenient but they certainly don't admire or respect him, not the way they respect WZX even (!!!) for being a 忠臣. (As ever only Wen Zhong has the imminently sane attitude of "WZX is Yue's enemy, it's a good thing he's finally dead, Fan Li why are you sighing for him wtf.") Also "violent death" isn't quite what 不得好死 means; it's more of, you'll get what you deserve, and you deserve a horrible death. The way Lei says it, it sounds like a curse.

Ji Kuai's statue in Ling Gu Fu's house

Basically it's like blaming Ling Gu Fu for Ji Kuai's death. If Ling kicks up a fuss, the King will naturally have to investigate Ji Kuai's assassination, and that'll piss him off because there's no way Gou Jian will come out of that looking good. Is why he's been content to let sleeping dogs lie. Pissed-off Gou Jian will probably seize on the excuse, say oh hay Shi Mai this is all your fault for meddling with matters not for you to meddle with, off with your head! That's my interpretation anyway.

why was Fan Li looking so uncomfortable as Gou Jian was instructing Shi Mai in The Whole Duty of Courtiers?

I assumed it was because of the unpleasantness and ruthlessness of executing so many soldiers, he was looking uncomfortable before the lecture IIRC. And Duty of Courtiers in this case has more to do with knowing one's place; the idea being that Shi Mai has overstepped his bounds by meddling with things that should be left to kings and regents.

benumb

Ahaha literal translation of 麻痹; in this context though it means to make complacent, to make the enemy lower their guards.

Ye Yong is more loyal to Gou Jian than Gou Jian deserves.

Yes seriously.

I like his servant too, who's picked up a lot of his master's manner.

Hahaha "Master, you've taken on more than you can handle again, haven't you?" "Shut up!"

[flemmings.livejournal.com]

Fu Chai: In this case it's the bursting into a hall and rushing up steps thing that recalled the Feather Recitation.

Bo Pi: Yes, OK. Get what's coming to you sounds a threat. Had I infinite leisure I'd be looking at Chinese subtitles, but right now three watchings and all in English is the best I can manage to get things fixed in my head. Honest politician was referencing an old New York joke, that an honest cop is one who stays bought.

Ling Gu Fu: See, Ji Kuai's assassination is open and shut. The uncle did it. Destroy all the uncle's generations! which might include Tang Li still? She's a concubine, not married, so whose family is she supposed to belong to now? TL is crazy at this point which may mean she wouldn't *mind* Fu Tong's name being rubbed some more in the dust, but she might draw the line at personal harm to herself.

麻痹: Oh jeez, mahi, paralysis. Yeah well: but does it have a sense of muddy the waters as well, or is some other word doing that?

Wen Zhong's servant: And "Do you want an audience? Or do you want an interview?" confusing Honest Ling: "I want to see him to apologize!"

[feliciter.livejournal.com]

kind hyperbole comments

whole truth, and nothing but the truth ^^

I agree with rasetsunyo about Fu Chai and Bo Pi. Lei singles out Bo Pi because he sees him as his betrayer (bit of foreshadowing there).

Fan Li looking so uncomfortable

Or perhaps he wonders if he's going to be next on the lecture circuit, I dunno.

麻痹

literally to paralyze and/or deaden sensation: i.e. render unaware and inactive. (all things considered, benumb is probably as concise as they can get.)

Wen Zhong gets more entertaining with rewatching.

Fan Li gets all intimate, then sidelined, then loyal, then entangled with Xi Shi, then stuck in Wu and even on returning to Yue doesn't quite have that kind of understanding with Gou Jian that the scabbard incident seemed to imply, and then *leaves* at the end - so I was sort of "meh" on the profundity of his relationship with his king, until your fic restored my faith in Fan Li/ Gou Jian 4EVA and beyond :D

[rasetsunyo.livejournal.com]

But uncle was Gou Jian's loyal dog! Gou Jian must have been the mastermind, is how the speculation goes. And no one can prove or disprove it. I don't know whose family Tang Li belongs to now though.

麻痹: like feliciter says, make unaware/inactive. Having Ling Gu Fu send 12 beauties to Lei was described as muddying the waters, 把水搅混; can't remember if 麻痹 was mentioned in that instance. But mostly Gou Jian says Wen Zhong is there to "benumb" Fu Chai, yes?

[rasetsunyo.livejournal.com]

Also, yes, tears in Fan Li's dewy eyes. ("We are 知己 but you didn't tell me what you were planning! Ohhh you break my heart!" *tears up*) I wouldn't have thought Fan Li was such a crybaby had such tender sensibilies. :D

Wen Zhong was pretty mean to pretend not to notice that reaction though. Or dense if he didn't actually notice it.

[feliciter.livejournal.com]

Tang Li is Fu Tong's sister and specifically says that he was the one who initially encouraged her to enter the ranks of the concubines in order to enhance their family's (and probably his) prospects. So like Yang Guifei who was never made empress but was Tang Minghuang's absolute favourite (and whose brother Yang Guozhong became prime minister with no small help from her), she is still of his family (though Tang dynasty rules and mores may not apply here), but her son is the king's and hence eligible for the throne. Legally speaking Gou Jian likely has the right to execute or banish her but Ya Yu probably would not condone it.

Ling Gu Fu's action with the beauties was to confuse the Wu court about Yue's preference (Lei? Fu Chai?) rather than specifically paralyze them into inaction. Making them believe that Yue is *not a threat, and in fact a friend* is what both the Yue and Wu sides refer to as 麻痹.

(IMHO Wen Zhong can be pretty dense about people's personal feelings.)

[flemmings.livejournal.com]

But mostly Gou Jian says Wen Zhong is there to "benumb" Fu Chai, yes?

Sometimes he says Wang Wossname has been sent to benumb Yue.

[flemmings.livejournal.com]

(all things considered, benumb is probably as concise as they can get.)

Agreed, if it wasn't such a HongKong Subtitle Factory WTF? word, as in, one not commonly used in NAmerican English, certainly not about political sitautions, that only makes sense if you know what the original is. Deaden suspicion is closest, and if that's too long for a subtitle they should have paraphrased. /translator's grump.

Agreed also about Wen Zhong. Though if *I* wasn't certain Fan Li's eyes were welling, after several viewings, don't see why WZ would notice. Fan Li is not the welling type, as rasetsunyo says; and he *is* the 'slight air of modest superiority' one, at least to Wen Zhong. And of course WZ is steaming mad at the time.

Or my favourite take: Wen Zhong does notice his friend and tormentor overwhelmed by an uncharacteristic emotion and takes himself off in pretend exasperation so as not to embarrass him by staying. (Can one tape from a DVD, asks the techno illiterate? I know this kind of detail is going to keep coming up and I'm not going to have my set for reference for a while.)

Possibly it's a mutual attraction, stronger on Gou Jian's side, separated by Crooooel Fate time and again, until at the end Fan Li, seeing his death approach and having had his cake and eaten it too all his life, trots off to die with his second wife lord.

[rasetsunyo.livejournal.com]

For someone who's not the welling type Fan Li does it remarkably often. Lessee, there's this time, in Wu when Gou Jian accuses him of treason, when Xi Shi barges into the camp and offers to die for him, back in Yue defending Gou Jian to the courtiers (and Wen Zhong looks so sad and sorry), in prison after Xhi Shi leaves. Clearly Spring Autumn predates the whole "a man sheds blood but not tears" nonsense. Oh wait -- Helu does say exactly that. Never mind.

having had his cake and eaten it too all his life

Yup, that's our Fan Li all right.

It should be possible to record your DVDs onto VHS. Just the video sequence though, not the menus. Are the DVDs copy-protected? Also are your DVD player and VCR separate units or a combination deck? Combos should already have a copy option. Separate units -- I need to figure out the video/audio in/out thing first.

[rasetsunyo.livejournal.com]

If it is copy protected though you'd need to get a digital video stabiliser. More cost/trouble than it's worth, I say.

[feliciter.livejournal.com]

I am fairly sure dewy-eyed Jia Yiping Fan Li's eyes were welling, but his tender feelings aren't quite that important to single-minded "just-the-facts-ma'am" Wen Zhong at that point.

overwhelmed by an uncharacteristic emotion and takes himself off in pretend exasperation so as not to embarrass him by staying.

Not that uncharacteristic, the way Jia Yiping plays him: I get the feeling that cool!sage!Fan Li is the image he cultivates and him with the scabbard/on the scaffold is what he's really like inside.

mutual attraction, stronger on Gou Jian's side separated by Crooooel Fate

My brain has been warped by that parting shot from Fan Li to Wen Zhong so am under impression that fear (and the underlying desire, present since his first appearance in the wine shop, to lead a simple life) impelled Fan Li's flight, and guilt brought him back at last.

[feliciter.livejournal.com]

From what I remember there's never been an occasion in all the wuxia/police/gangster serials and films where a character who says 男人流血不流泪 hasn't ended up doing precisely that :p (it's like saying "that's the *last* thing I'll do" or "over my dead body" - but hey WZX actually pronounces the latter to Fu Chai, so.)

I just can't think of poor ickle Jia Yiping Fan Li post-Xi Shi as the seme with *anyone*, even Uncle Ming.

[flemmings.livejournal.com]

My brain has been warped by that parting shot from Fan Li to Wen Zhong so am under impression that fear (and the underlying desire, present since his first appearance in the wine shop, to lead a simple life) impelled Fan Li's flight, and guilt brought him back at last.

However much truth the parting shot may have had, one doesn't see fear of trouble or fear of death anywhere once he's in Wu. Very much the opposite, when he refuses to work for Fu Chai, even though it's to everyone's benefit for him to take the king's shilling (and acquire useful information, backstab Wu, and ensure better treatment for his own king.) He only changes his mind when Ya Yu gives him royal permission and he knows Gou Jian won't mind. So I'll cut him slack for taking off when he did. I'm pretty sure his mother's situation had something to do with it- though one may wonder how come Yue got to her before Fan Li did. Hell, maybe he even *was* sick.