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Woxin: spoilery reflections 28-30
Ya Yu!! Ya Yu!! Still friggin' amazing.
Mind you, I know nothing of the etiquette of these things, but I did sort of wonder why she didn't just say outright to the ambassador Who do you think I am, huh? You're *sure* you want to try this on the Queen of Yue?
Equally, the subtitles have Wossname saying the ambassador is a great admirer of Yue's queen. Mh- in that case why didn't he recognize her? Or have the wits to put two and two together: Oh wow she looks like Queen Ya Yu lucky lucky me, and she's a prisoner as well, oh-- shit you don't think...? What a very stupid man for the King of Jin to send as ambassador.
But then we wouldn't have Gou Jian laying his head in silence on her hands. Or the second iteration of the Feather Recital.
Or the third either, I suppose. Both heart-breaking in their various ways. "Oh come on, Yue guys (pun pun), *think* would you? What's the king trying to tell you?" But it's not a soldier's job to think, and for all these men are called courtiers, I'm assuming they're soldiers.
Fu Chai's virtue isn't, it's all reputation. Yeah, look at him be furious and outraged at what was done to Ya Yu and then when he's dismissed one scapegoat (whom he intends to call back ASAP) and ranted at everyone else, shrugs and becomes sunny sunshine. Doesn't really see anything wrong in what was done in his name and hey he has his treaty, go him. Swine.
Backtracking into 28, Fan Li wins my heart by being ethical at precisely the wrong time and quite prepared to die. Also by gaping like a fish at Xi Shi. Dork.
Wen Zhong, ahhh. Is Wen Zhong. I bet the kings of the earth cower when they hear he's at their gates and want to tell their chamberlians to refuse him entrance, knowing they're about to be shown up once again as the shallow prevaricators and temporizers they are. (I need a Chinese word or set phrase for Wen Zhong that starts with b. Is there one?)
I could almost feel sorry for Fu Chai, having his choice of councillor lie between WZX and Bo Pi. Mind you, he probably deserves to be served by WZX and BP, but still. And couldn't Bo Pi act a little less consciously dishonest? The oil gets on everyone's hands and it smells.
WZX is demented in his distrust of Gou Jian, but Wang Sun Luo shares it. You wonder why Fu Chai doesn't say to them, "Look- the guy's *wounded*. He's in a *coma*. What's the chances he'll make it even to the border?" Nope, it's all OMG it's the end of Wu now the madman in the coma who has no heir and whose men hate him has been allowed to return to his depleted country still staggering from the effects of its famine and the slaughter of its able-bodied manpower oh woe oh woe I see Wu walking into the abyss before my eyes!
The odd thing is they're right. But only right sub speciem historiae if not aeternitatis, 'cause all things being equal, you think WZX would still have been alive twenty years later to see it happen, supposing he hadn't been executed?
Mind you, I know nothing of the etiquette of these things, but I did sort of wonder why she didn't just say outright to the ambassador Who do you think I am, huh? You're *sure* you want to try this on the Queen of Yue?
Equally, the subtitles have Wossname saying the ambassador is a great admirer of Yue's queen. Mh- in that case why didn't he recognize her? Or have the wits to put two and two together: Oh wow she looks like Queen Ya Yu lucky lucky me, and she's a prisoner as well, oh-- shit you don't think...? What a very stupid man for the King of Jin to send as ambassador.
But then we wouldn't have Gou Jian laying his head in silence on her hands. Or the second iteration of the Feather Recital.
Or the third either, I suppose. Both heart-breaking in their various ways. "Oh come on, Yue guys (pun pun), *think* would you? What's the king trying to tell you?" But it's not a soldier's job to think, and for all these men are called courtiers, I'm assuming they're soldiers.
Fu Chai's virtue isn't, it's all reputation. Yeah, look at him be furious and outraged at what was done to Ya Yu and then when he's dismissed one scapegoat (whom he intends to call back ASAP) and ranted at everyone else, shrugs and becomes sunny sunshine. Doesn't really see anything wrong in what was done in his name and hey he has his treaty, go him. Swine.
Backtracking into 28, Fan Li wins my heart by being ethical at precisely the wrong time and quite prepared to die. Also by gaping like a fish at Xi Shi. Dork.
Wen Zhong, ahhh. Is Wen Zhong. I bet the kings of the earth cower when they hear he's at their gates and want to tell their chamberlians to refuse him entrance, knowing they're about to be shown up once again as the shallow prevaricators and temporizers they are. (I need a Chinese word or set phrase for Wen Zhong that starts with b. Is there one?)
I could almost feel sorry for Fu Chai, having his choice of councillor lie between WZX and Bo Pi. Mind you, he probably deserves to be served by WZX and BP, but still. And couldn't Bo Pi act a little less consciously dishonest? The oil gets on everyone's hands and it smells.
WZX is demented in his distrust of Gou Jian, but Wang Sun Luo shares it. You wonder why Fu Chai doesn't say to them, "Look- the guy's *wounded*. He's in a *coma*. What's the chances he'll make it even to the border?" Nope, it's all OMG it's the end of Wu now the madman in the coma who has no heir and whose men hate him has been allowed to return to his depleted country still staggering from the effects of its famine and the slaughter of its able-bodied manpower oh woe oh woe I see Wu walking into the abyss before my eyes!
The odd thing is they're right. But only right sub speciem historiae if not aeternitatis, 'cause all things being equal, you think WZX would still have been alive twenty years later to see it happen, supposing he hadn't been executed?
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Hmm. She's smart, she might have copped on to the plot? In which case she wouldn't have been believed?
Equally, the subtitles have Wossname saying the ambassador is a great admirer of Yue's queen. Mh- in that case why didn't he recognize her?
I'd assumed that was a lie. The guy obviously has no idea who she was, and when prodded uhh Gongsun Xiong was it said My lord need not ask. (sheesh Mr. Straightforward Military Guy sure is doing an extraordinary amount of the dirty work isn't he.) And I don't remember exactly but I think the phrase was, he'd long heard of the Queen of Yue's beauty and desired to meet her; obviously they've ever met.
But then we wouldn't have Gou Jian laying his head in silence on her hands.
YES I love that scene. *______*
and for all these men are called courtiers, I'm assuming they're soldiers.
They are, the military guys got dragged over to Wu while the civil officials got to stay at home.
Fu Chai's virtue isn't, it's all reputation.
Yeah that's what bugged me as the series wore on, more and more everything with him becomes about the appearance of being a great king. Which made me wonder where, exactly, did the old Fu Chai go wrong. Was he always this way but had no way to show it as an unfavoured prince? Because in the beginning I thought he sure as hell had the substance of a decent human being.
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Definitely the most awesome female character I've seen in any historical drama of this kind.
the subtitles have Wossname saying the ambassador is a great admirer of Yue's queen.
Er - not sure what context that was in, but how it looked like to me (and according to the Chinese subtitles):
- Jin ambassador didn't even know he was going to get any female company, much less imagine that it would be a queen. I don't think he's even seen her before, given that royal women in those days rarely appeared before foreign personages.
- WZX kept the plan from Fu Chai and lied to Gou Jian that the ambassador had heard of the Yue queen's beauty and wished to *know* her, to make him think that Fu Chai et al actually intended this humiliation to see if Gou Jian would submit to keep his life.
- I think even WZX was taken aback by her husband the king's reaction.
- But yeah the Jin guy is an idiot to get blackmailed in this fashion, and he doesn't have the guts of certain other ambassadors.
(no diplomatic immunity in those days, I suppose. Wen Zhong is in a class of his own.)
we wouldn't have Gou Jian laying his head in silence on her hands. Or the second iteration of the Feather Recital.Or the third either
羞愧呀 罪人, indeed. (that third one almost looked like he was saying the line to Fu Chai, but.)
Fu Chai's virtue isn't, it's all reputation.
That it is, that it is. But he appears to have salvaged as much as possible of a rather messy situation.
gaping like a fish at Xi Shi
There's a scene in ep 31 (or 32?) that had me wondering if I was watching a cutesy Taiwanese drama.
Chinese word or set phrase for Wen Zhong that starts with b
Bu4 bei1 bu4 kang4 不卑不亢: "neither humble nor pert" is how Yahoo China translates it, but my inner and outer Chinese dictionaries seem to say neither servile nor defiant. Also how Fu Chai intends to react to the threat from the Jin king.
You wonder why Fu Chai doesn't say to them, "Look- the guy's *wounded*. He's in a *coma*. What's the chances he'll make it even to the border?"
He probably thinks that it will be futile in the face of such demented persistence. WZX's idee fixe is common knowledge.
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I think he was (is, very very deep down?) a fundamentally decent person but prideful, ambitious and getting more and more enamoured of power and his own cleverness. Also shi2 shi4 zao4 ren2 (sorry no Chinese software, how I usually get the words to appear is the rebus method on babelfish + Yahoo China or Japan -> cut-paste) - circumstances make the man and Fu Chai is as much an opportunist as Bo Pi, but a bit less shameless about it.
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Oh well, subtitles. Or my imperfect memory of same. They actually did say roc and not phoenix in the feather recital, or did second time through.
YES I love that scene. *______*
Painful in all the right ways.
Though about these late night domestic scenes- it occurs to me, given what awful things transpire from sotto voce remarks (like 'enthrone the king's son') that a) it's a bit dangerous for clearly-sane!Gou Jian to be telling Ya Yu why he refused to go home and b) why didn't Jie Zi Bao was it? not overhear *that* conversation?
Because in the beginning I thought he sure as hell had the substance of a decent human being.
It was personal feeling that made him so decent about and to Gou Jian's sister, wasn't it? And I wonder if his desire to bring about a diplomatic settlement to the situation was also due to knowing his battle-axe brother for sure couldn't and this was a good way for him to shine in front of WZX at least. Brute 1 doesn't seem to care for diplomatic means any more than Brute 2, as I recall.
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Just about it, yeah. Fu Chai is moral when he can be moral sitting down, as it were.
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Will watch again but it was clear as day to me that Gou Jian's act couldn't *quite* cover his reaction. I suppose WZX has reason enough to satisfy himself at least that it *is* all an act.
no diplomatic immunity in those days, I suppose.
I don't think diplomatic immunity extends to what happens in your own country. The subtitles put it that the ambassador had a clear choice between death and death when he got home. -_- Have Jin's shame broadcast to the world and die for it, or sign the treaty his king told him to refuse and die for it. I suppose it's to the man's credit that he saved his country's face; there's always a good pretext to abrogate treaties but there's no glossing over raping a queen. Well there is, but there seems to have been no media manipulation in those days either. 'The prime minister of Wu sent me a captive beauty for my pleasure and only afterwards told me she was Yue's queen. Can you trust a deceitful snake like that who leads good men to their ruin?'
There's a scene in ep 31 (or 32?) that had me wondering if I was watching a cutesy Taiwanese drama.
Too much to hope for a more traditional approach to this, I suppose, given who was cast. Pity, though. A Xi Shi who could match Ya Yu would have been wonderful to see.
不卑不亢
Ahh, perfect. Thanks.
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a) Uncle Ming seipso
b) noonday obvious Gou Jian/ Fan Li attachment
c) really twisty and twisted Fu Chai/ Gou Jian obsession
d) hurt, comfort, angst, and beautiful suffering + poetry.
Hollywood, and even Japan, would do either/ or, one or the other of these (with more ropes and chains, if it was Japan.) These guys give you it all.
The fanfic is all in Chinese though. (suffers)
You wouldn't happen to have a region-free DVD player, perchance? Can send when I'm done, for those times when you've nothing better to do. DLing from the chinese stream site is torture and I'm amazed
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With tears on his perfectly sculpted cheek omg *thud*
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My impression was that the royal couple got that little bit of privacy more than the other prisoners. And naturally the Wu soldiers would be on their guards with a visiting Yue official around.
why didn't Jie Zi Bao was it? not overhear *that* conversation?
Dadum Plot Device! Zhu Ji Ying actually, Ling Gu Fu's ol' buddy and second who used to have a perpetually harassed look to him. But ahaha now that you mention it.
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