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flemmings ([personal profile] flemmings) wrote2006-08-25 09:02 pm
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The Want List for Tales of Yuletide Treasure still gives me horripilations, but it occurs to me that there's an excellent workaround. Find a request made by someone you detest and write *that*. Then, if the result sucks donkeyballs, hurray.

But what I was really going to talk about was pastiche. When I write from a text-based source like the Onmyouji novels, naturally I write pastiche. Never thought twice about it. You want something that recalls the original, yes? Then you must write pastiche, because how else can a purely word-based source be referenced except by authorial voice?

It occurs to me that this automatic assumption may not be true. The reason it occurs to me is that, in writing 100 Ghosts fic, I felt I must of course tell a 100 Ghosts story, and then I wondered why I had to be constrained by Ima's narrative in the first place. I've used different styles for other manga: have done reflective soliloquies and humour fics and whatever that weren't at all the style of the original shounen. (Indeed, if you don't depart from the givens of the original, it's almost impossible to write shounen-based stories at all, I'd say.)

So I needn't tell a ghost story to do 100 Ghosts fics. Just, if I don't... will I believe it's a 100 Ghosts story? Or will I find myself playing paper dolls, making Ritsu an angsty and introvertive and soliloquy-given shoujo hero? Will I be arbitrarily putting the characters in dress-up costumes from the Yaoi Wardrobe, as yaoi writers regularly do, regardless of whether the clothes fit them or not? 'Ritsu'd make a good sulky uke, yes, and Aoarashi would make a nice evil seme', and the fact that Aoarashi is a comic character most of the time and Ritsu has no sexuality to speak of be damned. Or that youkai with the peach-flower eyes who wants to marry Ritsu, believing him to be a girl, or rather wants to marry Tsukasa, believing her to be the little girl Ritsu he met years ago-- why shouldn't I give him Ritsu after all in some peculiar youkai marriage? The guy was cool, and came from a cool family- the better class of youkai, you know. It's not Ima Ichiko at all, but should I care?

Only I do.

[livejournal.com profile] mvrdrk is reading Phantom Moon Tower in Chinese. Yes, the interlude with his senpai is probably Yosaburou's first time, which is one of many reasons it took him so long to recover from it. Now here, you see, I can see writing an expand-and-explain story to explore in extreme erotic detail what exactly went on in that unnatural encounter. There's a hole in the Phantom Moon text that Ima does not fill for us, leaving it very satisfyingly to our imaginations. One might want a hard copy of one's imaginings, hence the need to write a story. There are no such holes in 100 Ghosts, or none that I can see; and that's probably why writing anything in the series but pastiche (ie more of same) strikes me as arbitrary and authorially intrusive.

But where the line exists between filling holes in the series (or writing onstage those things which are done off, or which are not done at all, off *or* on, but should be) and playing paper dolls with the characters ('Now *you'll* be the uke and *he'll* be the seme'), I really don't know. Or don't know until long after I've written it.

[identity profile] mvrdrk.livejournal.com 2006-08-26 02:58 am (UTC)(link)
Ritsu could very well be one of those uke that don't have any sexuality until pushed, I suppose. They do exist in the commercial stuff. But I don't think Aoarashi is the one to do it. Not because he's comic but because he has no interest. Hmm, I'll have to go re-read and see if I can figure something out. My vol. 11 just arrived so I have incentive to read it over again.

For Phantom Moon Tower (you really should put in a link to your wonderful review, I'm at work or I would), the hole left by Ima is ripe with possibilities. Like many of her holes, I didn't notice it on first reading. Yosaburou's potentially got a very complex emotional landscape with his sempai. I need to go back and re-read and see if it says what he was before he resided at Phantom Moon Tower and how the incident with his sempai went. I have the impression it was rather loosely sketched in. Lots of details left to be discovered.

Which brings me to a critical question: is there a second volume?

[identity profile] flemmings.livejournal.com 2006-08-26 03:48 am (UTC)(link)
Link added.

No, Aoarashi has no interest so you can't do run-of-the-mill stuff with him and Ritsu. But I've always seen a hint of- what to call it? A kind of reverse interest or something. Aoarashi's party line is that he doesn't hate Ritsu because Ritsu isn't the person he made the contract with, he's merely the object of the contract. But when the mortal foe who bound you against your will is dead and you find yourself contracted to protect your mortal foe's grandson, it feels odd to me to have no feelings about that person at all. No transferred hostility and/or whatever love-hate amalgam youkai feel for people who are stronger than themselves? Mere indifference? I don't think so.

But for the easy stuff- Akama (Red Interval) and Ritsu is it. Akama's whole presentation is seductive, of course he must be a sexual kind of youkai.

And I believe there's been precisely one ep of PMT since the tankoubon came out. She really does do a single episode of that a year.

[identity profile] mvrdrk.livejournal.com 2006-08-26 04:01 am (UTC)(link)
I don't have a handle on Aoarashi's feelings toward Ritsu. Have to go re-read ...

I can see a potential bit of a hole in Aoarashi. You'll have to correct me if I get any of this wrong, the text is at home, but one of the things Aoarashi is interested in is physical sensation. He's something of a glutton for sensations that humans have and youkai don't. I have the impression he eats because he finds the taste of things interesting. I also have the impression that he's very mouth focused, in the same way that babies put everything in their mouths. The potential hole is that he doesn't know that humans can be tasted without eating them.

The goofy bit, of course, is that if you could do Aoarashi x Ritsu, you would also be doing father x son. LOL!

[identity profile] flemmings.livejournal.com 2006-08-26 04:51 am (UTC)(link)
Ohhh nonononono. Not in Ritsu's father's body, no. I've nothing against oyaji but not oyaji who behave like *that.* And if anything would make Ritsu fight tooth and nail I'm sure it'd be having his father's body put the moves on him. No, it has to be some kind of dream sequence or dimension warp where Ritsu's in some kind of astral body- like the one he has when he meets his grandfather again in vol 1- that can interact with Aoarashi's human-like spirit body. Which I believe- it's in vol 13- turns out not to be exactly his own, because in his natural form he's a dragon. (Unless the dragon form is the manufactured one. Will check when I find my vol 13 wherever it's gone walkies to.)

The mouth-orientation thing... umm, yes. That has very funny possibilities. But I think it only works when he has a human mouth, because otherwise it seems to be all belly-think. 'Let's go eat other youkai!' It's like, the notion of taste is connected to having a human mouth, while the youkai focus is on how filling a spirit is or not.

[identity profile] mvrdrk.livejournal.com 2006-08-26 05:23 am (UTC)(link)
the notion of taste is connected to having a human mouth

Complete agreement here! I love the term 'belly-think'!
ext_8660: A calico cat (mike snooze)

[identity profile] mikeneko.livejournal.com 2006-08-26 10:48 pm (UTC)(link)
(Indeed, if you don't depart from the givens of the original, it's almost impossible to write shounen-based stories at all, I'd say.)

Hmm? Why?

(But if this is a "canon has no slashiness ergo fanfic slashiness is a departure from canon" thing, that's not a place I wanna go, so, uh, just forget that I asked.)

I tend to think of "patiche" as applying strictly to literary fandoms; text-based with no visual component shifts the focus heavily on stylistic imitation. The more normal fanfic routes are always available as well, i.e., reusing the characters and situations only. (Mm, I guess . . . yeah, I've done lit-fic both ways now. ^^;)

Slash with Aoarashi seems sort of . . . eeuw? Despite him being exceptionally, creepily grabby. ^^; (Just recalling that he's *married* to Ritsu's mother is an equal eeuw.) Stalker Redhead sets off a similar reaction. (OMG eyeballs! Poor Ritsu!) And, y'know, even though I say that, I'd read all of the above because I have no shame.

Eh. I dunno. I s'pose if I thought there was a High Probability of getting matched with you in Yuletide, I'd be cramming Ritsu x Uncle Kakkoi Kai onto the request list. Maybe with strong hinting for Ritsu back in a kimono again. *koff* But, as I have learned from experience, Yuletide cannot be finessed in this fashion.

(As it is, I've already tentatively decided on my four Items of Ultimate Obscurity that no one's gonna volunteer for. Helas.)

[identity profile] flemmings.livejournal.com 2006-08-27 12:56 am (UTC)(link)
(Indeed, if you don't depart from the givens of the original, it's almost impossible to write shounen-based stories at all, I'd say.)

Hmm? Why?


(I should probably have said 'write Shounen Jump stories', and those other magazines, whichever they may be, that follow the SJ ethos.) In two words, genki and gag. If you're true to the original, there needs to be lots of those and a certain absence of deep characterization and emotional interaction. As [livejournal.com profile] mvrdrk said, there's no there there in SJ, which I think is by and large true. Even the growing intensity of some people's feelings in HnG (here at vol 13 or so) are all one-sided. I wait to see if Hikaru will ever grow a little self-awareness, but not with great hope.

The Enix line of shounen, par contre, has immense there there. You needn't arbitrarily impose emotional relationships on FMA. They were there from the start.

Well yes, the possible partners for Ritsu are both eww. They're youkai, a breed that we keep being told, by humans and youkai alike, can't coexist with humans. Once upon a time they could, yes- but possibly that 'mukashi mukashi' period was before humans developed certain laudable characteristics, and were as ferocious as the youkai themselves. (Ahh- that's my idea BTW. Not suggested by the text.) Eating weaker youkai or enslaving them for eternity- small difference really.

Do remember that human!Aoarashi seems to live a physically separate life from the rest of the family. Ritsu takes him his meals, one rarely sees him sitting about with Mom and Grandma, etc etc.

There's probably a Kai x Ritsu story (semes first) waiting to be written, but I'd find it almost as nasty as Akama x Ritsu. Uncle is physically kakkou ii in that black coat of his, but Uncle screws up. People who screw up cannot be kakkou ii. That said, Akama/ Kai is the way to go, obviously. Even though Kai canonically has hot eyes for Aoarashi- in a decent manly 'I want to own that shikigami' way of course.

[identity profile] mvrdrk.livejournal.com 2006-08-27 10:00 pm (UTC)(link)
Even though Kai canonically has hot eyes for Aoarashi- in a decent manly 'I want to own that shikigami' way of course.

Hmm, so you could probably do Aoarashi x Kai, but two things would have to happen, it would have to be Kai that screws up to make it happen (easy), and Aoarashi would have to figure out the tasting without eating thing. But then, you'd be stuck with Ritsu's father's body ... You know, I think that might actually work ... but it wouldn't be erotic as much as it would be 'curious'.

[identity profile] flemmings.livejournal.com 2006-08-27 11:03 pm (UTC)(link)
But the sticker is, what could make Aoarashi interested in Kai, either as dinner or mating fodder? given the utter absence of sexuality so far...

The fact that Kai is Kagyuu's son, and a lot more like Kagyuu than Ritsu is, maybe. If Aoarashi wants to express his feelings about Kagyuu on a hapless substitute, Kai is the better choice. But equally Kai is a more active person than Ritsu and possibly the better onmyouji. I can't see him sitting still for Aoarashi's advances either.

You have to get Aoarashi out of that human body for him to express the necessary high-handed ferocious mindset. In attack mode he's always a dragon. But that makes any interaction with Kai physically impossible unless Kai's in some kind of astral body.

[identity profile] mvrdrk.livejournal.com 2006-08-28 03:59 am (UTC)(link)
What would attract Aoarashi's attention to Kai? Kai trying to take over Aoarashi. I don't think Kai would sit still for it. It would have to be one of those athletic rape-like things.

[identity profile] flemmings.livejournal.com 2006-08-28 04:28 am (UTC)(link)
But *can* Kai take over Aoarashi? He seems to be operating under the same misconception that Ritsu did- that Aoarashi is Ritsu's shikigami because he protects him. But he's not. Ritsu has no say in what Aoarashi does except when his life;s in danger.

I thought at some point that Kai asked Ritsu to lend him Aoarashi, and Ritsu didn't set him straight, but I'd have to find the passage again to be sure. But again, can an onmyouji take someone else's shikigami by fore and make it their own? I don't think so. The onmyouji and the shikigami have a contract and either the contract has to be voided by the onmyouji or broken by one side or the other, before the spirit can go elsewhere. That's why Kagyuu's shikigami go after Ritsu- they think he's Kagyuu and they want their release from him.

[identity profile] mvrdrk.livejournal.com 2006-08-28 06:20 am (UTC)(link)
Ahh, from a practical stand point, No. Independent of whether the contract between Aoarashi and Kagyuu exists or not. Kai can not take over Aoarashi. Kai doesn't have the skills. Kai screws up.

That's why I said try. He can try all he likes. The question is would he even make the attempt? I think he just might, given his poor judgement in the past. So it depends in part on whether he has learned anything from his ordeal.

I so have to go re-read the entire set. I wish I had the time right now.

[identity profile] flemmings.livejournal.com 2006-08-28 05:20 pm (UTC)(link)
Ahh naruhodo. Yes, Kai would try, not knowing any better even though God knows he should. A man who had his own shikigami ought to know the labour laws in respect to youkai contracts. (Just came across Ritsu citing them in vol 10 was it? or rather something to the effect of "The Japanese Gambling
Regulation Act forbids bets based on verbal contracts between humans and youkai.")

And my strong impression from later volumes is that Kai has indeed learned nothing and is as overweening as ever, but I need to reread all the Kai stories to confirm my idea that he really is jonesing after Ritsu's shikigami and I didn't just make that up.