flemmings | (no subject)

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wuxia

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I don't wish to sound ungrateful, but...

I'm as new a newcomer to wuxia films as you can get. In my life I may have seen eight or ten max, and five of them were in the last week. Except for Hero and Crouching Tiger I pull them from the video shop's shelves at random, going by title and cover. I want martial arts and I *don't* want the bloody Qing hairstyle. (Ming will do just fine thank you.) And with those criteria, except for Hero and Crouching Tiger, what I've seen has all turned out to be Hong Kong films.

I treasure the HK energy and sense of humour, I really do. But christ on a cracker, guys- are you *ever* serious about *anything*? Has a HK director ever made a wuxia film that wasn't a send-up of wuxia films? The self-reference and the deliberate anachronisms and the clowning and the in-jokes are beginning to wear a bit, is all. Even the sound of Cantonese is turning into an unconscious signal for 'just kidding here guys don't take us seriously.'

Maybe this is pure luck of the draw and maybe if I didn't go looking under HK directors like Tsui Hark I'd fare better. But my only other option seems to be some iteration of Shaolin monks, and I don't want Shaolin monks. I want something in Mandarin with hair and a nod, if not at HA, at least at serious drama. Is all.

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What kind of things are you looking in wuxia films?

Most of the stuff will be in Cantonese. Which ones have you seen? (Try the older movies for painful seriousness, you could. Or drama serials, though the popular ones are mostly adapted from wuxia novels and prone to the harem syndrome.) *

For Mandarin, Taiwan makes some period melodramas in which all one wants to do is to join in and kick the weeping protagonist while she's down, and defenestrate most of the characters with extreme prejudice off a 2nd storey building, because nobody ever dies from falling off a high cliff. Any action will be pretty much token - at most a little jumping up and down walls.

Other Mandarin source - China is not prone to wuxia films, period. Historical epics, Zhang Yimou-type things, that's about it.

* A lot of this can be found dubbed in Mandarin here, but with Chinese subs only, which is a thing I do not get.

I hear Tsu Hark's latest, Seven Swords, is fabulous, but it might be a little while before it hits video since it just came out.

If you want another historical movie, I recommend the Emperor and the Assasin. It's very good. (Also, House of Flying Daggers is out on video now. Have you caught that?)

I loved the HK film, Iron Monkey. It definitely has it's comedic moments, but it's a lot of fun.

Any recommendations from all the movies you've seen? I don't go down to that section enough.

What kind of things are you looking in wuxia films?

Robes, hair, people flying, kung fu, imperial plots-- all that. No meta. Y'know- like looking for a *serious* western and not a send-up of the genre.

Which ones have you seen?
this (http://www.lovehkfilm.com/reviews_2/white_dragon.htm) and this (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0398373/) and this (http://www.kungfucinema.com/reviews/zuwarriorsfromthemagicmountain.htm) which is what sparked the entry.

I'd probably be happy with historical epics. Know any good ones?

Flying Daggers is a two-day rental and I need a week. ^_^ Besides wondering how well a Japanese can speak Mandarin...

Recs? Mh, depends what you're in the mood for. High silliness I have several of, good fun not so much.

You might want the kind of serious historical TV drama from the Mainland my parents watch: forty half-hour episodes of the life of Han Wudi or Yong Le or Qianlong. There won't be people flying, but there will usually be some kung fu.

I have no idea what the subbing situation is with these, though.

I like the sound of that, but I can't seem to find TV series in any remotely English language video rental place. I'd be surprised if it was subbed myself.

They probably aren't... I've been looking out for subbed period dramas, but there's very little demand. Even the bigger HK productions that get on prime time don't come with English subs.

It might be possible to get them on irc or maybe have someone record them on tape... Difficult. Do you watch vcds/dvds?

Ah, Kaneshiro Takeshi is "haafu", half-Taiwanese, half-Japanese. He speaks both Mandarin and Japanese, and does films for both markets. (Imdb profile (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0437580/)) He's also very sexy, in my opinion. ^^ The Returner wasn't that great though. (I'm actually not a huge fan of HotFD, mostly story-related. It is very beautiful though. I liked Hero better, even though it was propaganda. "One China is best! Sacrifice fot the state!" Jet Li and Co. were very cool though, and most likely it was partly Zhang Yimou's way of getting back the "OK" from the government since they've banned some of his other films like "To Live".) If you would like to see some of his other films, I like To Live and Not One Less a lot. Raise the Red Lantern is beautiful but depressing. Shanghai Triad is also good, but again, depressing.

Ah, King of Masks (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0115669/) is also good. No relation to the earlier films, but thinking of Shanghai Triad somehow reminded me of it.

I really recommend the Emperor and the Assasin (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0162866/). Excellent historical drama. Also, Musa the Warrior (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0275083/) is mostly in Korean, but it's actually a joint pic between Korea and China, and there's some Chinese actors in it, included Ziyi Zhang from Hero.

So, what are your highly silly recs. :)

Do you watch vcds/dvds?

Not on my computer, no. Some vcds play on my dvd player but others don't. But it's frustrating not to understand anything that's happening. Way back in the day ('87, this was) I followed an unsubbed HK costume drama on local TV and it drove me mad. So I guess I'll continue to look for films that scratch the itch.

"One China is best! Sacrifice for the state!"

Well, since a bunch of little kingdoms generally means anarchy and constant warfare (cf Sengoku Jidai and medieval Europe- or hell, 18th century Europe) one country isn't a bad idea. Pity it had to be unified by the king of Qin is all.

The White Dragon is high silliness (Ming girl acting like shopaholic modern HK girl) and Twin Effect II is even sillier. (Kingdom ruled by women, male slaves, comedic actors turned heros, slow-mo female king fu, eunuch-for-love!! etc etc. Good male eye candy though.)

Unification might have been good then, but any recent huge statements of "One China" is reflection of the ongoing tension between China and Taiwan. Seeing the film, I could definitely enjoy it for it's "legendary" storytelling, but the messages inside it were very clear, and a reason why the government was very cool with Hero. (And not cool at all with his earlier films that chastised the government, especially during cultural revolution.)

Ah well. My political senses are atrophied after living half a century in Canada. I didn't get the current relevance at all, mostly because how could one *not* have profound distaste for the first emperor, even the one in the film? 'Necessary evil' was what I was getting. 'At last someone understand me, so one of us must die.' Doesn't compute in my round-eye world, sorry.

I work in a bubble that focuses on these topics, which also causes me to lose perspective in other ways. It's no fun focusing on the politics if you miss all the swirling leaves and silk sleeves.

Not to mention the swirling silk. I know it was the extended edition but there were times the thing looked like a Vogue shoot from the 60's, with hair-perfect models out in the Gobi amid acres of chiffon.

It reminded me of Christof (sp) and his 'art'. LOL! You'll probably like the TV historical dramas better than the HK kung fu films.

Don't think I know the man. What is he? Or who, maybe.

For good wuxia films, my recommendation is that you shouldn't miss the films by Director King Hu (http://hkcinemagic.ifrance.com/siteanglais/atsuihark/kinghubio.htm) , even though many of his films were produced some 30 years ago. Come Drink with Me (http://www.cityonfire.com/hkfilms/cd/comedrink.html) (1966), The Dragon Gate Inn (http://www.jeremysilman.com/movies_tv_tt/dragon_gate_inn.html) (1967) (not Tsui Hark's remake of it in 1992), A Touch of Zen (http://www.lovehkfilm.com/reviews/touch_of_zen.htm)(1971), Raining in the Mountain (1979) and Legend of the Mountain (1979) (http://hkcinemagic.ifrance.com/siteanglais/apages/kinghuswan.htm) would not let you down. They are in Mandarin and they surely have hair and nods(LOL).

For Tsui Hark, I'll recommend his The Swordsman (http://www.lovehkfilm.com/reviews/swordsman.htm)(1990) and his debut feature, The Butterfly Murders (http://members.tripod.com/mrblue845/btflymur.htm) (1979).

KaKa

P.S. Thanks for putting the pictures up ^__^

Thanks for the pictures, and thanks for these recommendations too.

Oh, I, er, went shopping and picked up a couple of movies. A 1977 Dream of Red Chambers, and a more recent Outlaws of the Marsh/Water Margin, that looks serious, and Sung Chiang is not generally a subject for hilarity either. I haven't watched, probably won't. Can I send them to you?

Yes indeed! to the first and uhh OK to the second. Water Margin is batshit, you're right. My sister lent me episodes from a dubbed production that was immensely painful; and for some reason I think it was a Japanese version, though that scarcely seems possible. The Japanese think they wrote Three Kingdoms but I've never seen them even mention Water Margin.

Water Margin's very much a history thing. It's pretty batshit in itself, even compared to three kingdoms. Since the heroes are all criminals of one kind or another. =) But the character in this one is one of the few unambiguously good guys.

(I'll need a mailing address, send in email?)

The only addy I have for you is the lj one. Send it to my email address? (in user info)

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